St Lucia murder

[John A]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I wouldn't exactly say "hence" but whatever you feel the reason for poor behavior is, I wouldn't go to St. Lucia by boat or to a resort. 2 years ago my wife and I went to Sandals all inclusive in St Lucia for our honeymoon and it was a total ripoff. Terrible attitude by the staff and the food was mediocre at best. They had our money already so why even try to please us? Contrast that with the all inclusive Iberostar at Cozumel where we went last year where the food was plentiful and amazing and all of the staff couldn't do enough for all of the guests. There are lots of nicer places than St.Lucia and many of them actually want you to come visit them and have a friendly attitude.

I always anchored out in Rodney Bay for at least a week, with an overnight in Margot, followed by several days on a mooring at the Pinions. I did this twice a year from 2002 - 2009. I found it a very enjoyable island to visit

[SaltyTanned]

Originally Posted by John A

I always anchored out in Rodney Bay for at least a week, with an overnight in Margot, followed by several days on a mooring at the Pinions. I did this twice a year from 2002 - 2009. I found it a very enjoyable island to visit

In Rodney Bay, Marigot Bay and the Pitons boat boys will hassle you. Rodney in a northeasterly can become untenable. Marigot unless inside, and there is no room to anchor, is often very rolly while between the Pitons it is almost always rolly.

If you think these are good anchorages you should try Martinique. No yachtsman was ever murdered there. I have never heard of a boarding either. There are very secure and beautiful areas to anchor, fantastic beaches and of course the food is unequalled.

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I may be wrong and you right… but just to make sure, please provide pointers to the cases of murdered cruisers in New Orleans, Miami and Rio de Janeiro?

I've spent many night at anchor in various parts of Miami and also docked in the river. Ditto for New Orleans, Chicago and Detroit, Memphis, Nashville..... didn't put bars on the hatches till I left the US.

A nice whitey is way more likely to be killed on some beach in paradise than on a basketball court in the wrong neighborhood.

this all really sucks, but make me glad I'm only building a 34 footer which will be great for the (still) safe Bahamas and all over the SE US.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by SaltyTanned

If you think these are good anchorages you should try Martinique. No yachtsman was ever murdered there. I have never heard of a boarding either. There are very secure and beautiful areas to anchor, fantastic beaches and of course the food is unequalled.

And the girls are pretty!

[John A]

Originally Posted by SaltyTanned

In Rodney Bay, Marigot Bay and the Pitons boat boys will hassle you. Rodney in a northeasterly can become untenable. Marigot unless inside, and there is no room to anchor, is often very rolly while between the Pitons it is almost always rolly.

If you think these are good anchorages you should try Martinique. No yachtsman was ever murdered there. I have never heard of a boarding either. There are very secure and beautiful areas to anchor, fantastic beaches and of course the food is unequalled.

Part of the enjoyment of an adventure is enduring the parts that are not perfect and keeping a positive attitude. I lived on my boat for 25 years and cruised for ten of those years. It was an absolute hoot, negative things and all.
kind regaards

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I wasn't really serious (well maybe a little).

But I believe there may be a big difference between an execution by lethal injection carried out at 1 am in a dark room away from the public, and a public hanging or beheading carried out in the public square at noon.

The Iranians do public hangings for drug smuggling - they still have major drug problems.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Violent crime is double per capita in Europe. Yes, murder... 2 to 3 times higher in the US.

I can't let that myth go unchallenged. Those " statistics" come erroneously from a debate over gun ownership in the US and they are based on a comparison between UK and USA figures. Not by the way European averages and the US.

What constitutes violent crime in the UK, is in no way comparable to the US , The US had a very specific grouping its refers to as violent crime. The UK on the other hand has an extremely broad definition of that term ranging from extremely minor infractions,

Furthermore there is clear reported evidence that in the US the violent crime category suffers from under reporting

Hence no direct comparison is actually possible. Pundits attempting to extract comparisons have claimed UK equivalent violence rates run from 270 to 720 per 100,000 compared to 400 approximate per 100000 for the US. Draw your conclusion accordingly

If one compares specific crime say auto theft , this averages about 280 per 100000 population , compared to 390 in the uS

Equally the US " forcible rape !!" Stats show US at 42 per 100,000 with Europe at approx 28 per 100000 , this however is a category with significant under reporting.

Crime statistics are notoriously difficult to compare outside headline specific crime.

" back to your regular scheduled broadcasts "

Dave

[CarinaPDX]

Oh no, don't quit now - your on a roll...

Most of the statistics, including yours, are dubious for all sorts of reasons. Yes the UK has fewer car thefts per 100000 population, but actually quite a few more per 100000 cars because there is less car ownership. Draw whatever conclusion you like from that. And you are absolutely correct that the definition of violent crime is far different. In fact IIRC the UK doesn't have this rather arbitrary division between felonies and misdemeanors. And when we talk about the quality of data, in the US it is crippled by the gun lobby that has passed laws that prohibit the federal collection of consistent data across states by the federal government. Yes, a real mess indeed.

I do think we can agree on the much higher murder rate and gunshot injuries here, but solving it is the elephant in the room we need to not talk about here.

Greg

[DGH]

Originally Posted by Wolfy

MOST RECENT REPORTS | Caribbean Safety and Security Net

The southern Caribbean is not secure....period.
If you can't relax and enjoy the life that you have worked so hard for and saved up for....why bother visiting the islands that have a history of violence against fellow Cruisers.
Sail on by and relax, life is far more precious than being able to view a couple of Pitons and a few extra Palm Trees.
Since I have been made aware of the Piracy off the Venezuelan coast and the host of other crimes throughout the southern Caribbean, I certainly have changed my original Plans....I wanted to sail the Caribbean before I headed through the Canal and into the Pacific....now, I'm headed straight to the Canal and west bound.
Maybe by the time I come around again things may have quieted down.

Guns?? Someone mentioned a possible increase in Gun ownership amongst Cruisers??
What's the point? you have to declare them and hand them over anyway!

I really feel sorry the Lady that lost her Husband, what a sad event after spending life together to have your other half taken in such a pointless and violent manner.

Shocking occurrence. So sad and my condolences to his widow and family. Speaking of the southern Caribbean area, how does Grenada compare with St Lucia for security, etc.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I can't let that myth go unchallenged. Those " statistics" come erroneously from a debate over gun ownership in the US and they are based on a comparison between UK and USA figures. Not by the way European averages and the US.

What constitutes violent crime in the UK, is in no way comparable to the US , The US had a very specific grouping its refers to as violent crime. The UK on the other hand has an extremely broad definition of that term ranging from extremely minor infractions,

Furthermore there is clear reported evidence that in the US the violent crime category suffers from under reporting

Hence no direct comparison is actually possible. Pundits attempting to extract comparisons have claimed UK equivalent violence rates run from 270 to 720 per 100,000 compared to 400 approximate per 100000 for the US. Draw your conclusion accordingly

If one compares specific crime say auto theft , this averages about 280 per 100000 population , compared to 390 in the uS

Equally the US " forcible rape !!" Stats show US at 42 per 100,000 with Europe at approx 28 per 100000 , this however is a category with significant under reporting.

Crime statistics are notoriously difficult to compare outside headline specific crime.

" back to your regular scheduled broadcasts "

Dave

Read and see for yourself...

A well written research paper by European authors titled "Crime in Europe and the US: Dissecting the “Reversal of Misfortunes” documents and analyzes crime rates in Europe compared to the USA. In essence, crime has continued to increase in Europe whereas crime in the USA has leveled off and has been decreasing since 1990.

The authors investigate 5 variables; demographics (fewer young males), immigration, abortion, unemployment, and incarceration.

The European authors conclude that a tougher incarceration policy would help turn the tide in Europe.

Link to paper: http://www2.dse.unibo.it/zanella/papers/crime-EP.pdf

I believe this information is appropriate for CF because it is relevant to assessing risk when cruising in Europe. Additionally, it seems like the USA is frequently stereotyped in CF as being a more violent country by posters from Europe, Australian, and New Zealand. We are also viewed negatively for having a large incarcerated population.

Even though we have a lower rate of violence crime than Europe we are better at it as the homicide rate in the USA is still higher.

Cheers!

[minaret]

Yay! We are better at violent crime! Bragging rights.

[robert sailor]

Crime rate Canada vs USA

[CarinaPDX]

But Europe has higher skills in the category - few people here have the patience to learn the pickpocketing trade, a popular European profession, because it is so easy to buy a cheap gun and hold up a convenience store.

Greg

[robert sailor]

My last post was in error, I was googling the crime stats for Canada and USA and instead posted it, I'm getting a little stupid these days, no confirmation needed, LOL.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Yes and the violent crime rate in Europe is double, two times, the USA.

If You want to make such a comparison, please be so sensible to to compare the EU towards USA. When You talk Europe You do include countries to the east from EU (Russia, Ukraine, Moldova etc.). What about including Mexico on Your side of the pond?

Truth is from European perspective there is not much difference, from safety point of view, between going to the US and to the Caribbean. And there are "better" and "worse" places in US and in Caribbean.