South from Chesapeake in Winter

[Tspringer]

So I am hopefully buying a boat. Survey is next week, if good we will close asap. Boat is in Annapolis. I will be looking to move her south to Brunswick, GA as soon as possible. Hopefully toward the end of February.

Plan will be to sail her south from Annapolis to Norfolk and then stage from Norfolk for the sail south around Cape Hattaras. No ICW... mast height is 70ft.

I've never been on the Chesapeake. Any tips or tricks? Looking at charts it seems fairly straight forward, just follow the bay south. What should I know that I don't know?

South from Norfolk is a bit daunting. What constitutes the best weather scenario? Is it best to give Cape Hatteras a wide berth or stay closer to the coast? With the Gulf Stream running north and us sailing south... thats tricky. Good sailing wind means wind vs current and a likely rough ride. Flatter water means a motor boat ride - yuck. Boat is a Bristol 51 with Hood in mast furled main and a big roller furled genoa. New boat to me of course so not looking for a thrill ride. Any tips, strategies or recommendations are welcome.

Anyone interested in crewing?


Terry

[witzgall]

The Chesapeake is not iced over right now, but that could change. The weather and sea state can range from bearable to very dangerous in the winter. Think frozen decks, hypothermia, etc.
I would think that waiting a few weeks until March would give you a better shot at a safe, stress-free passage.


EDIT - I missed the mast height. You won't be going outside, so I would ensure you have a safe place to stay in the southern bay if needed. Personally I would wait until April at the earliest with a new-to-you boat, and one that has in-mast and is that large.
Chris

[Scott Berg]

Wait in Little Creek for a good window and head out; get a current Gulf Stream chart and be sure you are clear of Capt Hatt and inside the Stream. Look for a southbound eddy and head in towards Charleston, then stay inside the stream; have a great trip

[Sparx]

The Chesapeake is no real problem. From Annapolis head south...

The Chesapeake offers endless distractions. Depth in some of these diversions will need to be watched.

A good staging area for getting into the ocean is Cape Charles on Virginia's Eastern Shore, and of course Norfolk on the southern end of the bay. Both have services if this new to you boat needs something.

Cape Charles has excellent water, so I often fill my tanks there.

Under the bridge and into the ocean ... pretty straight forward.

Late February on the Southern Chesapeake is typically warming into spring. There can be storms of course, but also a high chance of excellent weather. Watch the weather patterns from now until departure. You will see low pressure systems role through followed by several days of great going south weather. As February rolls into March there can be periods of very strong winds, which usually settle down in a day or two. Be ready with that second reef.

With Brunswick as the destination it is a bit of a toss up between hugging the coast and hopefully catching a south bound gulf stream eddy versus crossing the gulf stream on a good reaching angle and then making a tack to head for Brunswick when well outside the strongest part of the gulf stream and the wind angle swings around. In February, on a get acquainted with the boat cruise the coastal route might be wise. You are going to want a minimum four day weather window for a non stop transit.

[RGN]

I am exactly the same situation as you, except I am heading to Jacksonville, FL. I am docked on the Rappahannock River waiting for the winter 3 day gale train down the coast to fade. It is not my idea of a good maiden voyage to leave when 20+ foot seas and 45+ knot winds are forecast.


I am planning on doing just as the two previous posters said, bide my time until late April. Working on the boat and enjoying not having to work outside in the winter. Retirement is grand!



As far as Cape Hatteras goes, stay the Hell away from it! look at your charts, there is a large shallow area that extends 20 some miles SE from Hatteras and is about 20 feet deep, could be really interesting in a storm.

[s/v Moondancer]

Safe cruising is about being in the right place at the right time...Outside Hatteras in winter is plain stupidity! However, if you do sail south stay just outside the red markers in 60 ft of water that way the Coast Guard will not waste too much fuel rescuing you!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

Safe cruising is about being in the right place at the right time...Outside Hatteras in winter is plain stupidity! However, if you do sail south stay just outside the red markers in 60 ft of water that way the Coast Guard will not waste to much fuel rescuing you!

Sounds like good advice.


It's kinda like the answers we got when a skipper asked if it would be a good idea to sail from Seattle to Portland in January. The question was a real one, asked back in December, IIRC.


Fun & meaningful answers all.

[zboss]

Are you based in Georgia? Everyone starts heading north -to the chessy- in march.

[Sparx]

After reading these replies I went to look at the weather for the next week. The original post was about late February, but the near term weather pattern is similar to what could be expected at the end of February, however the possibility is for warmer temperatures at the very end of February, and possibly more westerlies. My personal preference would be to avoid ice on deck.

I get that cruising in April would be nicer. But what in this forecast would be cause to not proceed with a delivery? What are the unsafe conditions for the boat prepared for the temperature?

The forecast is from Windfinder.

January 30 Northeast wind 7 knots on the Bay, rising to 15 offshore. Perfect for exiting the Chesapeake and running south east along the northern coast of North Carolina. Overnight north westerlies might reach 20 knots, but the boat would not yet be far enough along to be fighting the gulfstream.

January 31 North westerlies diminish to near calm as a high pressure zone moves up the coast. Expect to motor around Cape Hateras in 0 to 3 knots of wind. Seems like reasonable conditions to go well off shore around the Cape as the swell settles. Temperatures should be noticeably warmer on the water.

February 1 Light easterlies come around to southerlies. Most of the day is perfect reaching following the coast in a south westerly direction. During the night the wind comes south westerly, which will be on the nose, but winds stay low and quickly diminish to near calm.

February 2 Mild northerlies develop around sunrise, developing into north easterlies at 10 to 15 knots. Nice downwind run along the South Carolina coast for the boat hugging the coast. Obviously stay out of the gulf stream.

February 3 If not in Brunswick by now, should be getting close. 15 knot north easterlies for the boat hugging the coast make for good sailing to the southwest following the coast. Further offshore 20 knot north easterlies will create rough conditions in the gulf stream. Best to stay close to shore. The low forming offshore quickly moves north easterly and the wind dissipates again during the afternoon and night. Option to pull into Charleston, Hilton Head, or Savannah if need be.

February 4 Light northerlies diminish to near calm by mid day.


That is a six day weather window for a trip that could be expected to take four days. There are multiple safe harbors to shelter in for the half day that could turn sour.

[ggray]

If rounding Cape Hatteras at night look out for the old light structure offshore. Abandoned and unlit.

[Tspringer]

Yup - I told my wife when I posted this that we would get 50% replies with good advice on routing and weather windows and 50% assured predictions of death and destruction. This forum is certainly predictable!

To my eye as I have watched weather patterns and wind over the past several weeks, leaving the bay and getting around Hatteras would appear to be about a 60 hour trip. Weather forecasts for 2.5 days forward are usually pretty decent. A plan to leave as a good window presents, scoot around the cape and then be able to duck in at Beaufort or New Bern or such should weather deteriorate seems prudent and do-able. If weather holds, continue south to Brunswick.

I am not anticipating a pleasure cruise - this is a delivery to get south with the exception that we don't have a set schedule and can go when the weather presents a good opportunity.

It does seem that this trip could end up using the motor a good bit as when a front passes the wind seems to tend to die off for 1-2 days as it clocks around and settles. Motoring isn't my preference but it is preferable to strong winds counter to the stream.

We want the boat to be in the keys by late March, my son has spring break from college and we want to have some fun - that's the whole point. Any additional experienced opinions are certainly welcome - as are the predictions of doom (I find them entertaining - sort of like the consistent forum predictions of imminent death should you sail a Beneteau in water over 100ft deep).

[pete33458]

If I were going to do this trip in February (and there is ZERO chance that I would...), I would time my departures to be just after a cold front has gone through, which is about every 5 days or so. Headed generally south, you will be on a broad reach to a run for the next couple of days with tailwinds of 15-30kt, and you'd probably make 10+ knots SOG in a big boat. Going with the wind (and there will ALWAYS be wind behind the front, because it is driven by a high pressure system), the large swells you are guaranteed to experience that time of year (regardless of weather) won't make life too unpleasant. My rule of thumb for the southerly trip is to stay at the 100 foot contour (depth), with the only exception being Hatteras, where you want to stay as close to Diamond Shoals as possible to avoid the stream (and truly dangerous waves). At this depth, you will avoid the northerly gulfstream current and often pick up a counter eddy. You'll also miss all the ATONs and most of the fishing boats.


With good timing and plenty of luck, that can be a fast and exhilarating trip, but there is no question that you are very vulnerable that time of year, and under no circumstances should you allow yourself to get caught out ahead of a cold front... Trust me it is very bad news.



Good luck! Pete

[Bill O]

Late Feb/early March could have some decent weather to make the trip south. Also a time for strong NEsters.

Used Commanders' weather, but found Windy to be reliable for the window around Hatteras.

From Annapolis to Hatteras (~250 nm) is a fairly straight shot. Stay out of the shipping lane off the mouth of the Potomac and headed out of the bay towards Hatteras.

Last delivery, we had wind and opposing tide coming out of the bay making for a bit of a bumpy ride 'til we rounded Hatteras. We stayed closer in on Hatteras when we came past Diamond shoals to stay inside the Gulf Stream. After DS, stayed inside to catch the counter current that typically runs along the coast (IMO not worth heading the extra distance outside the GS just to have to cross it again to come back in).
Watch for ship traffic headed into Charleston.


Other than suggest having a good heater on board, have a good trip.


Bill O.

[evbeck]

Not good marina options in Little Creek these days. Little Creek is the closest staging point and one of these days, the marinas will be better. Salt Ponds in Hampton or Cape Charles are nice.

[mnh]

We've been sailing the Chesapeake for years, and I was a commercial fisherman off the Carolina coast in another life.
Here are a few thoughts.
1) This time of year, winds often blow harder than forecast straight North or south on the Bay. It can be very unpleasant banging into headwinds with 4-5 foot waves on the bow.
2) You might want to have a thorough rigging inspection before going around Hateras. It's difficult to have a rigger up the mast this time of year. My daughter is a rigger in the Chese, and they are not climbing masts until the winds and temperatures are at least tolerable.
3) There is a South going Current inside the stream that is variable, but stronger this time of year because of the North winds.You can see the current on the Pilot charts, and find it in real time on most Gulf Stream analysis. It generally stays inside the stream, anywhere from 40-80 miles out. You can pick up about 1-1.5 knots from this current if you can find it.

4) I'd avoid Hatteras in any kind East or South quadrant winds. East winds, you are on a lee shore, and South winds generally blow hard this time of year after a front, and will really slow you down.

5) Consider using a weather routing service like Chris parker. I don't have a business relationship with him, but listen to his broadcasts most mornings. He can email you a weather route if you don't have an SSB aboard.
Best of luck, and, I love the Hood stowaway system on our boat. If the furling motor ever goes, the Hinckley (ex Hood yard) in Portsmouth RI has all the spares, or can they rebuild the motor for you for a very reasonable fee.
mnh