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Old 28-07-2013, 08:00   #31
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Re: Security

Criminals usually fall into 2 categories...ones that are dertermined and those of opportunity.

A locked hatch will usually defeat one camp and may defeat some of the other camp.

A shotgun loading will usually defeat most if not all of the opportunists and even more of the "determined" ones. A well fired shotgun may well close the deal on many "break ins" not necessarily a gang of bad guys or pirates.

Wasp spray, stun guns, pepper spray may deter like a shotgun or it may induce even the opportunist types to get pissed off and come back and shove it somewhere just before they rob you.

The only constant in self defense through the ages is IF you are going to take any aggressive action towards a "bad guy"...make it fatal if you never want to repeat the incident again in ANY time frame.

No action may still result in physical harm or the happy "bad guy" may just take the money and run.

I'm guessing that's why there are 2 camps of thought that seem to persist through the ages....neither right and neither wrong...because sometimes one works and sometimes the other works...neither works all the time.

Roll the dice, it's your life/property.
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Old 28-07-2013, 08:13   #32
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Re: Security

I would (and will, when I equip my boat) install a "Inferno" sound barier just near companionway hatch, possibly copled with ultrasonic "pain field" 145 db sounder, plus a high-power LED strobe. No matter how much someone is determoned to get in, this will - if activated - change their mind instantly. Dunno why people overlook modern security tech... They can be really effective!
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Old 28-07-2013, 08:16   #33
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by Sea Frog View Post
I would (and will, when I equip my boat) install a "Inferno" sound barier just near companionway hatch, possibly copled with ultrasonic "pain field" 145 db sounder, plus a high-power LED strobe. No matter how much someone is determoned to get in, this will - if activated - change their mind instantly. Dunno why people overlook modern security tech... They can be really effective!
How much do these items cost?
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Old 28-07-2013, 08:27   #34
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by Sea Frog View Post
I would (and will, when I equip my boat) install a "Inferno" sound barier just near companionway hatch, possibly copled with ultrasonic "pain field" 145 db sounder, plus a high-power LED strobe. No matter how much someone is determoned to get in, this will - if activated - change their mind instantly. Dunno why people overlook modern security tech... They can be really effective!
How effective are they on the occupants of the average sized cruising boat?...sounds to me like I would be incapacitated too and unable to take further corrective action like calling someone or just about any further action.
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Old 28-07-2013, 08:50   #35
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Re: Security

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I put a picture of me with my shotgun on the main locked hatch! If the uglyness don't scare em the shotgun do !! LOL
Bill Burr I want to get a gun - YouTube
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Old 28-07-2013, 08:51   #36
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Re: Security

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How much do these items cost?
I am afraid Inferno is on the expensive side ($1300+ or something like that), Ultrasonic stuff is cheaper (140 db array for around 600 bucks I believe, google for "Phasor Pain Field Generator"). It is certainly doable by DIY type of guy, for quite much less, I think (if you buy trancducers and generator and put it all together yourself). As for LED strobes I have not found a source yet, but by the time I need it I will. I think it is possible to use high power mast strobes (the stuff they ut on towers and stuff like that, for planes warning). OR build a DIY stobe with a flash type lamps, when I was a kid I built one for my "home disco"

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
How effective are they on the occupants of the average sized cruising boat?...sounds to me like I would be incapacitated too and unable to take further corrective action like calling someone or just about any further action.
Well, inside the boat it is much less powerful, that's for sure. Another thing is, if you activate the stuff manually (someone is breaking in) you are ready for it, unlike the guy. It makes a big difference. Then again, even if it is automatically activated in the night, you will know what is going on, because I bet you would like to try it first yourself, so it will not be a complete surprise. After all, between being "incapacitated" and "hurt" I would choose "incapacitated". The bad guy will be gone and I will be able to recover from "shock"
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Old 28-07-2013, 09:00   #37
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
How much do these items cost?
There are many types of alarms and some start at about $12. Just mount one of these at your companionway and the bad guy will run the other way. Many are portable so you could take them to a hotel. Not rated for marine use? Well, just buy a few and you are good for a couple of years. Nobrainer.
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Old 28-07-2013, 09:31   #38
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
... A gun is only one possibility. Another one is a crossbow which is legal in every country that I know...
Many Countries regulate cross bows (to some extent), and in some, they are considered equivalent to firearms.

Ie
Norway Sweden, & Denmark
Crossbows and the laws...

Australia
Prohibition of crossbows | Western Australia Police
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Old 28-07-2013, 09:46   #39
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Re: Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Criminals usually fall into 2 categories...ones that are dertermined and those of opportunity.

A locked hatch will usually defeat one camp and may defeat some of the other camp.

A shotgun loading will usually defeat most if not all of the opportunists and even more of the "determined" ones. A well fired shotgun may well close the deal on many "break ins" not necessarily a gang of bad guys or pirates.

Wasp spray, stun guns, pepper spray may deter like a shotgun or it may induce even the opportunist types to get pissed off and come back and shove it somewhere just before they rob you.

The only constant in self defense through the ages is IF you are going to take any aggressive action towards a "bad guy"...make it fatal if you never want to repeat the incident again in ANY time frame.

No action may still result in physical harm or the happy "bad guy" may just take the money and run.

I'm guessing that's why there are 2 camps of thought that seem to persist through the ages....neither right and neither wrong...because sometimes one works and sometimes the other works...neither works all the time.

Roll the dice, it's your life/property.
I knew this would turn into another CF gun thread. Use a gun in a foreign country and you'll be enjoying their accommodations in a crap-hole of a jail.
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Old 28-07-2013, 10:00   #40
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pirate Re: Security

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I knew this would turn into another CF gun thread. Use a gun in a foreign country and you'll be enjoying their accommodations in a crap-hole of a jail.
Just get drunk... feel no pain... cause plenty..
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Old 28-07-2013, 11:03   #41
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by sabray View Post
Why do you say that? Just getting it on your skin is uncomfortable. In your eyes its painful. As an intruder that is not expecting a response it is a good legal tool. What myth?
That it is incapacitating.

Generally, would just make them mad.
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Old 28-07-2013, 11:44   #42
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
That it is incapacitating.

Generally, would just make them mad.
As I have mentioned before, per the advice I was once given (to be helpful):

"Stab one time no good"..........."they angry you"

She didn't cover wasp spray .......but I can guess I would have got one of "those" looks .

As a broad rule of thumb, if your approach would give you at least a decent chance against a crocodile likely will work against most things with 2 legs you will ever encounter, on land or at sea (unless looking for trouble or are incredibly stupid on where you go ). No rocket science involved, just much the same technique as when tackling a croc - keeping going until either help arrives, you can run away somewhere safe or until you have a handbag .

With no gun (for the lazy and unprepared, with no imagination) you get to put some effort in. and some smarts - from the many threads on this subject over the years that clearly is beyond many........but unlike the open door and sound asleep with a gun under pillow approach you get to sleep at night without relying on a wet dream about Chuck Norris to wake you up at trigger time........

FWIW, me has a trident on my "to do list" (mostly for the CF entertainment value ) - will be a tweaked handheld garden fork that fixes onto an (extending) boat hook. My inspiration was an angry woman with a pointed stick.......
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Old 28-07-2013, 11:50   #43
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Many Countries regulate cross bows (to some extent), and in some, they are considered equivalent to firearms.

Ie
Norway Sweden, & Denmark
Crossbows and the laws...

Australia
Prohibition of crossbows | Western Australia Police
Yes, well... I would never have felt the need to arm myself in Western Europe and Scandinavia but must admit things are changing rapidly. I know in Holland, Germany and England they are legal and probably everything south of there too.

I was more looking at the known trouble spots in the Caribbean and Asia and it's legal anywhere there. Should check for Mexico which is the toughest on regulations for cruisers.

Australia... illegal? I thought long guns were allowed there? I don't know enough about Australia but don't think there are any boardings etc? For PNG I would be armed or not go.
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Old 28-07-2013, 12:24   #44
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I knew this would turn into another CF gun thread. Use a gun in a foreign country and you'll be enjoying their accommodations in a crap-hole of a jail.
A thread titled "Security"....who'd thunk guns wouln't be brought up?

I don't disagree that guns are a bad idea in many places...didn't advocate guns....didn't disagree they have their place.

Just threw out my thoughts as a trained security officer because many people don't truly understand security...what it is, how to attain it. As I said...usually no right answer because people aren't willing to go the full measure to attain it in many cases.

Do a lot of things in some places and you'll be in a crap hole place...some places not...you'll just be beheaded.
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Old 28-07-2013, 15:14   #45
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
There are many types of alarms and some start at about $12. Just mount one of these at your companionway and the bad guy will run the other way. Many are portable so you could take them to a hotel. Not rated for marine use? Well, just buy a few and you are good for a couple of years. Nobrainer.
Cheap Home Security Systems-Wireless Home Security Alarms-Cheap Alarm Monitoring
I already have a siren activated by pressure sensors on the swim step, companionway and foredeck. I was interested on what the incremental cost of one of these attack sirens vs a more standard one was.
While companionway metal guards and hatch locks can be a good idea, I'd rather start the deterrent process earlier with noise makers and lights when they first attempt boarding.
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