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Old 30-07-2013, 08:54   #151
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No better evidence for my pov than the posts from Dave. He assumes there are only humans. A serial killer in his view is just a human who was taught that killing people is the true way of life. He also believes there are no sociopaths or that they are all locked up in jail, this is not very clear yet. He also beliefs there are no heroes and that military is bad. That in case of trouble you call the cops (who are bad or programmed humans?) who deal with it. There are no murders happening, we're all safe; my friend I wrote about is still alive. The only way he will adjust that pov is when the wolf shows up on his doorstep and a guy in uniform or other hero puts himself in danger and steps in between and saves his butt

I can accept that, like I said, there are different groups with different pov's. My only problem is that he then enters into insulting those who do not share his pov. This is clearly a nasty habit that he should work on. Respecting those who do not share your pink view of the world, just like they respect you would be evidence of a form of civil behaviour that you promote so much.
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Old 30-07-2013, 08:58   #152
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Re: Security

And hey, don't anchor alone in potentially dangerous places. [/QUOTE]



There you are. For a single woman, anchoring anywhere is potentially dangerous. Which takes us back to the "alone" word in another way -- I cannot reasonably expect strangers to put themselves in harm's way to protect me.

I had a stalker not that long ago. He gave up because I'm in a good marina with gates and codes that are changed regularly. Someone -- I believe it to be him, who else would? -- drove to the marina after 10PM one night and shined a powerful beacon light into my cockpit for a full minute. Then he called the marina office and tried to pump them for information about me. They wouldn't even confirm that my boat was there (although it's distinct enough that he must have known that), much less anything else he was asking. I had already warned them, and as he has a distinctive voice it was easy to describe it. I had to warn all my dock mates not to let this person in. No, I don't worry about him finding me in some obscure anchorage, but it's a reminder that age doesn't necessarily make me safer. There's a police station right across the street and I talked to them, but I couldn't file a formal report naming him because I couldn't be certain it was him.

I had moved from an unsecured marina right before this happened, and I'm very glad. I've had reason to really think about these things.
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:01   #153
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
No better evidence for my pov than the posts from Dave. He assumes there are only humans. A serial killer in his view is just a human who was taught that killing people is the true way of life. He also believes there are no sociopaths or that they are all locked up in jail, this is not very clear yet. He also beliefs there are no heroes and that military is bad. That in case of trouble you call the cops (who are bad or programmed humans?) who deal with it. There are no murders happening, we're all safe; my friend I wrote about is still alive. The only way he will adjust that pov is when the wolf shows up on his doorstep and a guy in uniform or other hero puts himself in danger and steps in between and saves his butt

I can accept that, like I said, there are different groups with different pov's. My only problem is that he then enters into insulting those who do not share his pov. This is clearly a nasty habit that he should work on. Respecting those who do not share your pink view of the world, just like they respect you would be evidence of a form of civil behaviour that you promote so much.
I always said the worst thing about the jobs I have had, was that when I was putting my kids to bed at night, and they told me they were scared of monsters, I couldn't look them in the eye and tell them that there was no such thing.

There are monsters, and they walk among us, every day.
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:11   #154
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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
For a single woman, anchoring anywhere is potentially dangerous. Which takes us back to the "alone" word in another way -- I cannot reasonably expect strangers to put themselves in harm's way to protect me.
[...]
And I'm very glad. I've had reason to really think about these things.
You are right to look at your personal safety in my point of view, but others will always argue that the government/police/military will do that for you. That discussion will never stop as demonstrated by GoBoatingNow.

In the real world, you can't expect strangers to step in and protect you. But, if there happens to be a sheepdog, he/she will do so without being asked for help. It is in their instinct to do so, there is no decision process going on in their mind, just a risk assessment and selecting best approach.

The reason you think about these things and are happy you did is because of your life experience: you have looked the wolf in his eyes and know what you're dealing with. Many people, incl. most in my mother country Holland, never did and, like Dave, believe the government will save us. It does not matter that the news shows hundreds of thousands of civilians slaughtered in countries where the government fails to protect them because they will argue that this will never happen in their country. They will never give in because doing so would make living life impossible for them.
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:14   #155
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
You are right to look at your personal safety in my point of view, but others will always argue that the government/police/military will do that for you. That discussion will never stop as demonstrated by GoBoatingNow.

In the real world, you can't expect strangers to step in and protect you. But, if there happens to be a sheepdog, he/she will do so without being asked for help. It is in their instinct to do so, there is no decision process going on in their mind, just a risk assessment and selecting best approach.

The reason you think about these things and are happy you did is because of your life experience: you have looked the wolf in his eyes and know what you're dealing with. Many people, incl. most in my mother country Holland, never did and, like Dave, believe the government will save us. It does not matter that the news shows hundreds of thousands of civilians slaughtered in countries where the government fails to protect them because they will argue that this will never happen in their country. They will never give in because doing so would make living life impossible for them.

Whatever ...
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:18   #156
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Re: Security

Actually I think he said as part of being in a civilized society...he accepts someday being a casualty....

I would love to know what "civilized" societies DON'T have the "self-defense" rule in their law.
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:26   #157
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
No better evidence for my pov than the posts from Dave. He assumes there are only humans. A serial killer in his view is just a human who was taught that killing people is the true way of life. He also believes there are no sociopaths or that they are all locked up in jail, this is not very clear yet.
I will let Dave chip in his 2 cents, but on the Sociopath thing, most of them don't actually kill anyone. In general it's the Psychopaths yer gotta watch out for -for they be mental .

Psychopath vs Sociopath - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

As the joke goes: Psychopaths enjoy killing stuff, Sociopaths don't.........
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:28   #158
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Re: Security

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Actually I think he said as part of being in a civilized society...he accepts someday being a casualty....

I would love to know what "civilized" societies DON'T have the "self-defense" rule in their law.

I see talking about self-defense in such a situation as a given. I don't think that surprises anyone.


But we ALL have to make OUR personal choices about what we're willing to do in that regard, and my reasons for my choices probably wouldn't be what you expect.

I have to assume at this point that there is no web company making those gates. That's OK; there are other options.
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:39   #159
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Re: Security

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Actually I think he said as part of being in a civilized society...he accepts someday being a casualty....
I think he said that Society accepts the risk of casualties (including him!), to do otherwise is uncivilised only because to even try and reduce to zero is a road paved with stupidities that is doomed to failure.

It's what Airlines etc do (sure they try for a 0 casualty rate, but know they will never get it). but no Politico will ever stand up and say it's fair enough that a few of "you" will get dead, and that is better than the alternative of the rest of us getting burdened with stupidity.....albeit in recent times the Politicos have discovered much money to be made from selling stupidity as security.

Quote:
I would love to know what "civilized" societies DON'T have the "self-defense" rule in their law.
Was probably referring to the civilised countries not empowering folks to be judge, jury and executioner in the name of self-defence. Civilisation has a price - not everyone (or everywhere) willing to pay that price.
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:49   #160
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Re: Security

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OK.... that seems to be your opinion... and I bet guys like Hitler and Hussein...just wanted peace and harmony.
Wow! Over 140 posts on this subject before it gets Godwinned. Is that a record?
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:49   #161
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..."Go Ahead, Make My Day!"... When you post your suggestion/reply, kindly make it short and to the point; a paragraph or two, not pages and pages long. Thanks!

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I agree completely!
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Old 30-07-2013, 09:53   #162
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Re: Security

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What exactly do you find so horrible? The fact that there are bad people? Or that there are those who stand up against them? Or that this gets discussed which is all scary and it would be better not to think about it?
None of the above. The scary part is that an adolescent male power fantasy is being taken seriously by grownup men with guns.
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Old 30-07-2013, 10:24   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
No better evidence for my pov than the posts from Dave. He assumes there are only humans. A serial killer in his view is just a human who was taught that killing people is the true way of life. He also believes there are no sociopaths or that they are all locked up in jail, this is not very clear yet. He also beliefs there are no heroes and that military is bad. That in case of trouble you call the cops (who are bad or programmed humans?) who deal with it. There are no murders happening, we're all safe; my friend I wrote about is still alive. The only way he will adjust that pov is when the wolf shows up on his doorstep and a guy in uniform or other hero puts himself in danger and steps in between and saves his butt

I can accept that, like I said, there are different groups with different pov's. My only problem is that he then enters into insulting those who do not share his pov. This is clearly a nasty habit that he should work on. Respecting those who do not share your pink view of the world, just like they respect you would be evidence of a form of civil behaviour that you promote so much.
Equally nick " reducto as absurdism" is not a useful addition to your arguments.
No where did i say the military is bad ,

no where did I say the police are automatons , I mentioned they were trained and equipped to deal with societies issues and that's what most people on society wants. Outside of the Us civilised society do not see individual personal firearms as a solution to anything.

What I mentioned as claptrap was your quoting , ie Grossman idiotic piece , which is widely paraphrased or requoted by US gun advocates .

It is claptrap because it attempts to paraphrase complex human societies into absurdly simplistic comparisons. A comparison that in fact is not even present in the wild. Wolves hunt to live. Humans do evil deeds not to survive ( in the main outside a war situation).

Then you have use of pejorative words like
" pink " " sheep" etc

Let me tell you Nick I am fortunate to know several real " heroes" , they are modest , meek individuals who process extraordinary reserves of courage and clear thinking in extremis.

I also happen to know some ex military types , now mercenaries , classic warriors. The world however really doesn't need these.


Of course there Are evil doers about. Equally more are killed on the roads , perhaps as should brand motorists sociopaths are execute them with our warriors

This nonsense propagated by pro gun lobbies ( which is giving all legitimate gun users a bad name ) where the world is evil , everyone is out to get you and to be free you need a Glock is just that pure claptrap.
O

It's my opinion and some " blue shirt " (look it up ), wont cower me out of it.


Dave
( not sheep ,nor wolf, I prefer big cat analogy, mountain lion ?
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Old 30-07-2013, 10:30   #164
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I do not expect the police forces to save everyone from crime. However every day they do just that in a modern reasonably well run society. ( I have several cousins who are LEOs)

Let me tell you nick in societies where law and order break down, the possesion of a itty bitty firearm won't do you any good.

Dave
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Old 30-07-2013, 10:45   #165
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Re: Security

Quote:
I think he said that Society accepts the risk of casualties (including him!), to do otherwise is uncivilised only because to even try and reduce to zero is a road paved with stupidities that is doomed to failure.
Correct , the " gubberment" . more correctly ordinary men and women in the LE professions, do step in and prevent lots of crime. They do not prevent ALL crime, but we in society accept that the price of of freedoms are that so called " wolves" prey on a small proportion.

The other option is the one being worryingly followed by the US , which is to round up the sheep for their own good, remove their liberties, trample on their freedoms in the name of " protecting " them.

Sometimes I feel happier with the Wolves outside the door, rather then the Shepard with 10,000 sheepdogs dogs, with full body armour.

And Nick Im sure if you experience a crisis in your life , say a bad accident , well leave to to bleed out by the roadside , rather then use the hated gubberment services your obviously despise.

The fact is , we are able to cruise around a large proportion of the world , because society is stable , organised and generally peaceful. Ones own warrior status(!!) will not protect one or ones family from assault anyway, despite macho posturing.

Modern society gives one the freedom to be macho , without much repercussion.


Dave
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