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Old 23-04-2015, 20:25   #46
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

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Originally Posted by msponer View Post
No way! They stole the bulkheads?!

Does anyone else feel this 'charming naivete and funny misunderstanding of the law that happens to benefit me' is getting a little more sophisticated, industrious, and organized than fits the basic premise?

Do they auction off the anchors and winches on the beach? Ship used sails to resellers in Florida? Put the electronics on ebay?
"They" are the owners of the reefs, waters and land. They have their own laws, and wrecks are considered salvage and are either first come first served or property of the reef owner - depending on the situation. One can post guard for a while, but eventually one must leave the wreck for obvious reasons. The locals that do the salvage use the materials (bulkheads, sails, wire, rope, aluminum mast extrusions etc) for their personal use and often sell the remainder stuff - yes, sometimes on the beach.

There is no sophistication, industry or organization in this - when a wreck is discovered, a dugout canoe containing a couple of barefoot guys paddle out and get to work with crude tools. There is often disagreements and negotiations among them about who gets rights when later dugouts arrive.

In this particular case, the owner got some other cruisers to help strip much of the gear, like engine, generator, and such off the boat and struck a deal with one of them to act as a selling agent for a cut of the sales.

In other cases, either the boat was worth next to nothing anyway (backpacker trade), or covered as a complete loss by insurance.

It would all stop if people refused to wreck their boats on the reefs...

Mark
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Old 24-04-2015, 05:15   #47
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

I'm with you. Lets make a pledge right now...





in the meantime would you keep your eye out for a watermaker....
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Old 24-04-2015, 05:53   #48
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

A few years ago there was an older gentleman coming down the U.S. East coast, solo. Someone saw him, thought he was in trouble, and called the CG. they launched a hell. For some reason they could not communicate to him.

He saw the helo, thought that his wife was sick or something and went along. He did not want to abandon his boat.

The boat, aluminum, washed ashore in a sandy beach in Nova Scotia, where it was stripped before he could get to it. Uninsured, his life savings went.

So the "wrecker" attitude is alive and well throughout humanity, not just in special places.
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Old 24-04-2015, 07:00   #49
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

Pardon what may be a stupid question, but what is Bauhaus?


Goggling indicates a university in Germany.
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Old 24-04-2015, 07:02   #50
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

Eric Bauhau accurately surveyed the region (and most of Panama) and created a cruising guide. This guide, and its charts, are colloquially referred to as "Bauhaus".

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Old 24-04-2015, 07:32   #51
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
...

The locals that do the salvage use the materials (bulkheads, sails, wire, rope, aluminum mast extrusions etc) for their personal use and often sell the remainder stuff - yes, sometimes on the beach.

There is no sophistication, industry or organization in this - when a wreck is discovered, a dugout canoe containing a couple of barefoot guys paddle out and get to work with crude tools. There is often disagreements and negotiations among them about who gets rights when later dugouts arrive.
...
Ive seen a lot of salvage stuff put to clever use by the Kuna. Saw a couple of "ulus" (dugout canoes) with proper sails cut down to fit recently...reef points and all.
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Old 24-04-2015, 07:32   #52
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

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What's the count?

b.
About 7 now I think.
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Old 24-04-2015, 17:26   #53
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

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Ive seen a lot of salvage stuff put to clever use by the Kuna. Saw a couple of "ulus" (dugout canoes) with proper sails cut down to fit recently...reef points and all.
And when I was there I noticed the Kuna tie up their cayucos with some really nice double braid line.
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Old 24-04-2015, 19:54   #54
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

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About 7 now I think.
We've spent three years there - that is within average for each year. 5-7 is normal.

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Old 24-04-2015, 20:40   #55
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
We've spent three years there - that is within average for each year. 5-7 is normal.

Mark
We're in the Swimming Pool tonight and have it all to ourselves! There are several visible wrecks around here. Would be interesting to do photos and stories on the wrecks of the San Blas.
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Old 24-04-2015, 21:06   #56
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

If you've already decided you're going to trust electronics, and rely on a chart-plotter, why wouldn't you put a $700 forward-scanning sonar on? These things are exactly what they sound like--a forward pointing pinger that alarms if you're coming up to something ahead of the boat. They use a slightly different frequency so as not to interfere with your depth sounder.

80' of warning is a hell of a lot better than none. When maneuvering under motor at a reasonable pace for unknown waters, that's more than enough time to stop the boat and determine a reasonable path.
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Old 25-04-2015, 08:36   #57
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
If you've already decided you're going to trust electronics, and rely on a chart-plotter, why wouldn't you put a $700 forward-scanning sonar on? These things are exactly what they sound like--a forward pointing pinger that alarms if you're coming up to something ahead of the boat. They use a slightly different frequency so as not to interfere with your depth sounder.

80' of warning is a hell of a lot better than none. When maneuvering under motor at a reasonable pace for unknown waters, that's more than enough time to stop the boat and determine a reasonable path.
Haven't been very impressed with the ones Ive used. I used to have an Interphase years ago, but maybe the technology has improved.

The depths change dramatically here so you would not get much warning anyway. 80' from the windward side of one of the offshore reefs is likely to be too late.

And, if like some of the backpacker trade charter captains you are drunk/stoned and passed out below....wont do you much good anyway (a significant % of the wrecks verde).
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Old 25-04-2015, 08:47   #58
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
If you've already decided you're going to trust electronics, and rely on a chart-plotter, why wouldn't you put a $700 forward-scanning sonar on? These things are exactly what they sound like--a forward pointing pinger that alarms if you're coming up to something ahead of the boat. They use a slightly different frequency so as not to interfere with your depth sounder.

80' of warning is a hell of a lot better than none. When maneuvering under motor at a reasonable pace for unknown waters, that's more than enough time to stop the boat and determine a reasonable path.
Unlikely 6-8 seconds would be enough time to react appropriately when unknowingly approaching a reef - particularly running downwind, which is the predominant direction most are heading.

And $700 is about the entire cost of many of those backpacker cattle boats.

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Old 25-04-2015, 08:50   #59
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
We're in the Swimming Pool tonight and have it all to ourselves! There are several visible wrecks around here. Would be interesting to do photos and stories on the wrecks of the San Blas.
There are also several wrecks in that area that are completely submerged and never visible. Three that I know of, and possibly more.

Unfortunately, I think we are going to miss you there once again. We decided to take off for the Windward Passage on Monday - next stop Florida.

We'll be back in a year, so maybe then?

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Old 25-04-2015, 10:46   #60
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Re: San Blas Panama Wrecks

Massimo on Lacardinala says 19 reef groundings this year. You may know him he has been in San blass for around 20 seasons on a 57 ft Sparkman and Stephens.
When we were in San Blas last season we used his tracks on Maxsea. We also found a few places where Bauhaus was a little off. I marked my copy but it's on the boat in ft Lauderdale.
I will share the details with him, I didn't realize it was still being updated and printed.
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