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Old 06-02-2015, 10:33   #16
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

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These projects and developments seldom if ever generate jobs and income for the locals in the Bahamas. Bimini is an excellent example recently. Cruisers dollars on the other hand go almost exclusively to the locals. While the Exuma chain does cover a large area, the development will be taking place throughout the chain and will be just the beginning. More will follow, you can count on it. Chuck
I bet you are right, Chuck. I wonder how the locals in Nassau enjoy looking at the Atlantis Resort every day, knowing they are not even allowed to gamble there themselves? I doubt they could even afford a day in the water park, or have a meal and drinks there. Nassau, being a high population area with many businesses, probably does net a good income from tourists. But, looking at the proposed areas for development, I don't see local citizens or businesses reaping any huge rewards. There just isn't that much population in those areas. If the Bahamians can benefit greatly from these resorts, then great. I just hope the Bahamian people aren't being used, and lied to.

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Old 06-02-2015, 11:45   #17
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

Some unhappy Abaco folk too.

From the Abaco Forum - In answer to Capt. Rick:
Yes, this is all about money. Southworth says he will sell the slips for around $125,000 each. Most Abaco Club members don't even have a boat - right now there is a 100ft dock on their property in Little Harbour and it is EMPTY and has been for years. The property owners at Winding Bay just want to raise the resale value of their property by saying it comes with a dock in Little Harbour. Financially, this will take dock rental business away from Pete Johnston - a Bahamian - and restaurant business away from Pete's Pub - a Bahamian business - and put a bunch of money in Southworth's pocket - a foreign developer. And don't forget it's a PRIVATE marina and a PRIVATE restaurant - Members Only. Well, Little Harbour is a Non-Members Only kind of place. Let's keep it that way.

A SAD day for Quaint Little Harbour, Winding Bay Sold - Abaco Forum

I'll say again, I don't think the foreign developers give a crap about the citizens of the Bahamas, and those poor people are being lied to by their government officials in bed with greedy foreign developers.

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Old 06-02-2015, 13:46   #18
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More Bad News From The Bahamas

A lot of local Bahamians go to Atlantis. They get discounted admission. I did myself when I had my residency.
There is a small percentage of Bahamians who oppose freehold interests in any Out Islands, or development, but Bahamians in general are in favor of these developments. The current PM is from Abaco and he was at Baker's Bay when I was there.
The further a development is from Florida, the less likely it will be viable. Witness Rum Cay Marina which last time I was there closed for lack of business.
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Old 06-02-2015, 13:49   #19
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

...and their natural resources being destroyed by megadevelopers - thebahamasweekly.com - (Video) Bahamas Coral Reef Dying because of Megadevelopment Golf Course

And more unhappiness here - http://abacoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8331

It's their country, not ours, but so sorry to see what is happening there already. No doubt, it's only going to get worse, and not good for the Exumas.

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Old 06-02-2015, 13:59   #20
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

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For those of us who prefer solitude, the Exumas began seriously changing for the worst in the 90's.

I agree, and it's not just development. Some of the changes in the Exuma Land and Sea Park as well. For secluded anchorages, I much prefer the Abacos these days.

As for the developments, who knows how they'll pan out. There are numerous examples of developments that never get off the ground. What amazes me, is that how anyone can look at so many resorts that are only 20% filled and conclude there's a demand for more.
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Old 07-02-2015, 14:20   #21
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

There are thousands of empty islands, many for sale. As to development into a resort or high use area, outside the major towns it's a losing proposition. That's why one owner chose to turn his marina back into just his private dock.

As to Atlantis, talk to workers there and you'll find out as Bahamians they are thrilled to have the jobs. Talk to residents of the Bahamas in general and to the government and you'll see how much they'd love to have new jobs. The sad things is that most of the deals and plans never materialize. A resort employing 1000 people would be great, but it's not going to happen on any of the islands.

Regardless, what happens on one island isn't going to impact us and as far as the slippery slope, I don't buy it. Fact is the most slippery slope is marinas and fishing camps closing. If there is opportunity to revitalize those places or build resorts that actually will employ locals then the Bahamian government would be derelict in their jobs not to do so. The problem is they can offer all the incentives in the world, but they can't make electricity cheap, and they can't make it cheap to get materials in and build and they can't make getting supplies in on a regular basis cheap. The cost of operating in the Bahamas will always be high.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:52   #22
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

I thought that the Bahamas Government is VERY STRICT (rightfully so) about foreigners working in their country and that practically every avenue must be exhauseted before allowing a non-citizen to be employed in the Bahamas??
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:54   #23
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

If you guys are worried about this area being spoiled, you need to make it further down to the geologic cousin of the Exuma Chain...


The Jumento's/Ragged's!!!


These islands were more populated and developed during the Revolutionary War than they are today!!!
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:19   #24
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

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The Jumento's/Ragged's!!!
Been there twice. Too crowded.

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Old 11-02-2015, 13:27   #25
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

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Been there twice. Too crowded.

Dave
OK............you can't keep me hanging like that

Where are we talking about that makes this remote chain too crowded?? If you don't want to post it, pleaseeeeee PM me
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Old 11-02-2015, 13:43   #26
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

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I thought that the Bahamas Government is VERY STRICT (rightfully so) about foreigners working in their country and that practically every avenue must be exhauseted before allowing a non-citizen to be employed in the Bahamas??
Don't bet on it. A post from the Abaco Forum....

Was in Nassau on Saturday (stop over from South Andros). Had 4 hours to kill so we took a taxi into town for some last minute cracked conch. Hadn't been in Nassau in some six years. New development on Cable Beach was just plain ugly. Taxi driver told us it was all Chinese money and all imported labor (some 5000-6000 jobs). New roadways, golf course, infrastructure. Deal with the government was made almost all totally in favor of the developer. It's becoming to be a pattern.......and not a good one. Money talks. All else seems to be futile.
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Old 11-02-2015, 14:14   #27
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

Unless you're Bahamian or a Resident, you really don't have a dog in this race. It's their country. If they'd rather have some of those empty islands hosting families at $500 per day times 200 rooms, than sailors who brag about how they spend that much a month cruising, it's THEIR business. And the increase in business definitely DOES benefit the local people. Developments require support infrastructure. You think they are going to commute the workers by air? They'll live on site for the duration. And they need support. Hardware and grocery stores get built. Restaurants. Roads get paved. Electricity and water issues get sorted out. Long term jobs are there, too, for those who want them. These improvements would never happen without some foreign investment.

And talk is cheap.
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Old 11-02-2015, 15:24   #28
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

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OK............you can't keep me hanging like that

Where are we talking about that makes this remote chain too crowded?? If you don't want to post it, pleaseeeeee PM me
It wasn't remote enough to keep the crowd down. We were there in Jan - Feb 2010 and again in May 2011. Anchorages as crowded as the Exumas. More remoteness available in Crooked/Aklins, Cat, Samana, Long (except NW side), Mayaguana....

Dave
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Old 11-02-2015, 15:33   #29
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

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I thought that the Bahamas Government is VERY STRICT (rightfully so) about foreigners working in their country and that practically every avenue must be exhauseted before allowing a non-citizen to be employed in the Bahamas??
The huge resort hotel complex near Nassau is being built by workers that are mostly from China and work for the developer/builder. So that only applies to everyone else. They are hiring Bahamians to clean the rooms and as waitstaff, etc. Chuck
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Old 11-02-2015, 16:54   #30
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Re: More Bad News From The Bahamas

If you ran a charity that helped many people and the most despicable person you knew wrote a check to the charity for $10 million, would you accept it or reject it?

This has been a very difficult subject for the Bahamian Government to deal with. Just as much as I'm concerned about bringing in Chinese workers, I'm concerned about pay and working conditions for them that probably don't meet the laws of the Bahamas.

Now this thread started as a discussion of what this was doing to the cruising grounds. I can tell you without hesitation if I had a good means of providing more jobs and helping the economy of my country then I'd be glad to sacrifice an island and a bit of cruising ground. The Bahamas have a financial crisis and cruisers are not paying enough for it to be resolved. Likewise, they need expatriates and can't start levying income taxes that would run them off.

Now the question is would I agree to the terms China Construction requires and has used elsewhere. Wow! That's a hard one. If I'm an elected official I need to do what is best for my people while adhering to the law. In this case they appear to be in conflict but I can find a way around the law. So, do I accept the tainted gift? There is no question the finished resorts will benefit the people of the Bahamas. Long after the Chinese construction workers are gone, there will be plenty of jobs for locals. I don't have all the facts and information those making the decision had. I would absolutely detest doing it this way. However, if I'm looking at the economy and the needs of my people, then I probably say "yes" to it. It sickens me to say that. May be a reason I could never go into government. As a business owner I can make decisions based on morals and ethics. I can turn down money. Even working for another company, I turned down many deals that I couldn't live with the other party. But as someone elected to do what is best for the population as a whole, I could not be as rigid in my thoughts.

This is one for the game of scruples. We all have our limits. I feel greatly for those who had to face this issue.

I use to deal a lot with the Jamaican government. Good people working hard to do the best they knew how for their constituents. We operated in free zones run by their entity, Jampro. I remember us paying the water bill for an entire free zone, because they didn't have the funds. It struck me sadly how much wealthier as a company we were than they as a country. The budget of Jamaica is $5 billion. Many US companies are bigger than that. Well, the budget of the Bahamas is much smaller. 2012/13 the revenues were $1.4 billion. Forecast for this year is $1.7 billion. Certainly small compared to the construction company. It's a different world.

On a side note, we just left yesterday the poorest country in Central America, Nicaragua. We docked at a great marina at a beautiful resort where we were treated like royalty. The people were so wonderful. But as we traveled inland to the nearest city, it hit us. Not in economic terms, but human terms and human suffering. Long standing and likely to continue for a long time. It was heart breaking. At the resort we were around the lucky ones who had jobs earning as much as $200 per month. And, yes, we tipped. And we don't care what is said about what it does to other boaters or anyone else. We met people to whom it meant a lot. Now I wouldn't in any way compare Nicaragua to the Bahamas. I do feel the Bahamian government is trying to do the best they can for their people and certainly don't feel that way about Nicaragua.

So, before I'm going to judge the Bahamian government harshly over the construction, I'm giving thought to the dilemma they faced and do each day.
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