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Old 18-10-2010, 16:23   #76
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we can sit and worry about where we gonna get killled or we can get in our boats and sail and have a good time until we meet our maker in whatever fashion we are to meet him.her in.
if i had only st around and worried about who , what and where and alladat, i wouldnt a got out of my6 bleeding crib at 14 months of age. there is so much more to life thsn havn gto worry about mg what happens if.. and we go there will get... yada yada yada.. if the folks n th emayflower had been concerned about pirates, they wouldnta gone??

lets get real-- only those not wanting to do this adventure will find excuses to not go. the rest will find reasons TO go.

half the cases of seasickness, i feel , are like the cases of perinatal emesis--morning sickness--- mainly caused by the lack of desire to be in the situation.\

best thing one can do BEFORE the trip to ready ones' self for it is psychological introspection. get to know yourself WELL and go from there. if you are in love with an idea yet not with the means of doing the idea, then ye wont be happy with it. you have ot feel passion for the entire project or it doesnt really work well. when you have the passion for the entire project, then a few lil minor incidents dont bother ye and ye can avoid areas that are not comfy to you.
my project goal is to become a gypsea. i am not returning in htis boat to san diego if i can help it. is time f or me to travel and wander under sail. i will have to go to sd for my other bot occasionally, but i will be not a residunce of kalifornikation any longer-- governator lost another..LOL

we will see whether my training has done any good as i get to places others have experienced difficulties.
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Old 18-10-2010, 16:26   #77
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Old 18-10-2010, 16:37   #78
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lets get real-- only those not wanting to do this adventure will find excuses to not go. the rest will find reasons TO go.
Well put!
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Old 18-10-2010, 16:50   #79
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What he said!! !! AND
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Old 18-10-2010, 17:45   #80
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lets get real-- only those not wanting to do this adventure will find excuses to not go. the rest will find reasons TO go.

+1

Check out the Baja Nomad forum to judge how safe it is to travel in Baja:

BajaNomad Forums - "Peace, Love & Fish Tacos"

I've been traveling down the Baja peninsula for the past 20 plus years with no real "scares". Baja is great once you get away from TJ and Ensenada.
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Old 19-10-2010, 07:36   #81
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lets get real-- only those not wanting to do this adventure will find excuses to not go. the rest will find reasons TO go.
It's pretty easy to sit in the lazyboy and pooh pooh risk. Consider the following, would you visit Mexico if there was a 2% (2 people out of 100) risk of being murdered in a one year stay? Would you coastal cruise off Somalia? I think most of us would choose to sail somewhere else. It's a big planet why go where the risk is high? What is your go/no go number?

In the individual experience risk is perceived to be binary, either you get caught in the box or you don't. In fact, many testimonials in this forum are in the spirit of "we went, we didn't have any problems, what's the big deal." Very self righteous attitudes toward the naysayers. They sailed by Somali or they left on an ocean passage after just learning to sail and beat the odds. Proof that everyone was wrong.

In my opinion many of these individuals don't know what they don't know in terms of risk. Perception of risk by most people is skewed. There is a good book by Paul Slovic on how perception of risk so off base from the reality.

My point is that it is not about sailing to Mexico or staying home it's about making an eyes open decision after realistic assessment of the risk and the potential downside if things go bad.
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Old 19-10-2010, 10:54   #82
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Greetings from Mexico City

yup and not from the hereafter...

I think I found a market niche. Here is the new vacation offering via our tour company:
Be ready to face Mexico ! We make it happen through our gritty real life training program.

The offer : one week in a Detroit motel .We will try to make it Flint for authenticity.

The program:

-You will only go out after dark ,so the criminal elements don't see you leaving in your neon green tracksuit,taking all your jewellery with you of course so it does not get ripped off in the motel.

- You will stop at the local liquor store ,push in front of everybody as you have cash ,not welfare checks like the unwashed crowd in the store and complain loudly that there are no Scottish single malts, only blends ,really only stuff suitable for the indigenous crowd.

- The malt has made you peckish and adventurous so you will stop at
a hole in the wall and ask for a barrito,something like that .The guy behind the counter will understand. You the man with the money ,he to obey. Why else would you be waving a 500 dollar bill in his face, if you did not want him to run himself ragged for you? You are probably his best customer in a month, so why should he not know that you know that?

- Demand a taxi ,shouting out exactly where you want to go,spelling the address for the guy behind the counter as he really is not all that with it and as savvy as you.

- Take a tour of the burned out houses. The driver is from there and tells you that one of the house´s was his Grandma´s. Proceed to tell him that the local people must be pigs, that things like that would never happen in Boise Idaho. And how can he let his Gran live in a place like THIS....

If you survive ,you survive Mexico...

First question: Why did you think when reading what a ridiculous scenario ? ANd even if you DID contemplate going to Flint that is not what you would do?
Reason :familiarity with Flint, knowing how to behave. You would probably look for alternative accommodation, in Ann Arbor maybe. The jewellery would stay in your nice alarmed house and the colour of your clothes would be black.

Second Question: You are really from Twoshack Creek ,never heard of the problems in Detroit and you are still not as scared as you are about going to Mexico. Reason ? You speak the lingo and the people over there roughly look like you.

Think I am exaggerating? I recently had an American lady rush across a busy street towards me and she very likely could have become part of the statistic of tourist killed in Mexico as she paid no mind to the traffic. She lunged towards me, much to MY alarm with the words: "You do speak English,don't you ? Where can I find a CLEAN toilet here ?" Now she did not ask out of pure interest, her interest was urgent as evidenced by her bobbing up and down frantically. I showed her, she was very close to her destination anyway. But I could not help wonder, how many mexican women she had passed in a time of lesser urgency. Would it not have been easier to go up to a Mexican woman,crossing her legs, imitating bobbing up and down and lifting her shoulders in an international gesture of not knowing something and look questioningly at her opposite? Her distress would certainly have been less and under giggles the Mexican lady would have showed the Gringa loca to a Sanborns .Or learn the word baņo (banyo) as it is a universal situation in any city and she could have been prepared?

If at any point you thought that I was serious and feel confirmed that you should never go to Mexico then you are wrong . If you laughed because you can never see yourself behaving like that you have grasped the basic concept of incongruity.
The point of the above satire is for anyone visiting any foreign country to realise their incongruity with their local surroundings and your unfamiliarity with the conditions. eg in the US more people are likely to know that may not be a millionaire,that you have a Heloc or two. In Mexico people are more likely to believe what they see on TV of the rich neighbour up north ,when they see your shiny white boat.

In the same vain prepare yourself for Mexico before you go. In a big place like Cancun you are one of many boiled to lobster colour tourists. In a place like La Pesca not so much. If that is where you want to go, google the news of La Pesca and the state it is in .There is no point cancelling a holiday in Orange County,California based on the crime statistics of Detroit. There is also no point cancelling or taking a trip on the basis of anecdotal evidence.

If the common denominator of the murders committed is jealousy and women are of no interest to you should the jealousy murder rate be? How many innocents were caught in the narco crossfire? How many were tourists ? How many were tourists in a tourist area? Analyse and a lot of the fear will go. And that analysis is beneficial for almost any situation. Narco violence happens in clusters.

An advice given here to a woman happy to go sailing but deathly afraid of cruising and storms and pirates was to make the boat her own,to learn all that she can, to forget about pirates as she was not going where they are. Same applies to going to Mexico or any other country where YOU are different.
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Old 19-10-2010, 12:02   #83
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Well said Adax. Still there have been several attacks against tourists and tourist areas lately. Keeping a low profile and avoid high violence area is good advice. I consider myself a faily savvy traveler as I have been in countries undergoing civil conflicts before and avoided getting caught up in the conflict by staying inside my room at the hotel during the worst of it. Paying a local to go out and buy food. Absolutely do not say or repeat anything that could be interpreted as taking sides, making a political comment, or criticising their "system", or problems. And leave the country or make way to the US consulate at the earliest opportunity. That said there is a large section of Mexico I would not visit right now. I had planned on a trip hopping down the coast from Texas. That trip is on hold until things settle down.
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Old 19-10-2010, 12:46   #84
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Adax: I wouldn't want to go to Flint for a holiday - so doesn't your comparison mean I shouldn't want to go to Mexico either?

As Lake Superior says: an individual's perception of risk is binary. I usually say that violence, even in the most violent societies, is comparatively rare, but devastating when it happens (but I like the 'binary' description).
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Old 19-10-2010, 13:52   #85
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Indeed neither would I by land Captain Bill. Ciudad Juarez for example has always had a reputation and I was advised not to go years ago. Ditto about getting involved politically. In Mexico it is actually against the lawfor a foreigner to get involved in politics and I am not sure about how far involvement stretches.
You sound indeed like a savvy traveller.

I did have a look though at recent newspaper reports and the hype is noticeable. " More Americans die in unnatural circumstances in Mexico than in any other country apart from military combat zones". "200 US tourists killed since 2004 in a country where violence is the norm"

Over 200 Americans killed in Mexico since '04 - World news - Americas - msnbc.com

Certainly when you read that article you would relate statement 1 to statement 2.
I was going to go into details, but an article I found does the legwork for me .
Its basic premises:
- Non natural causes does not equal homicide
- A number is only representative when compared to number of people not killed. He does make a mistake though. It is not 20 million US tourist but international tourists that visit Mexico. US tourists are on average 10 million.
- geographical clusters of the real homicides

The Facts Concerning Violent Crimes Committed Against US Tourists in Mexico

Personally, I hold another stat against that:"1700 people killed by homicide in Detroit alone in the same period"
In Pictures: America's Most Murderous Cities - Forbes.com

Now I am not saying there is no problem, but the probability of you experiencing them in tourist areas is much lower than the screaming headlines lead you to believe.

I did laugh though that they admitted that 2 dozen of the dead may have been US hitmen .
Consider also the type of tourism to Tijuana. While some people do go for the made with real sugar Coca cola at the local Walmart,to visit family others are looking for more adventurous tourism (err,cough).We have no breakdown of that. Everyone visits to witness authentic basket weaving.
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Old 19-10-2010, 14:11   #86
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Rou Coo ,no what I was trying to say is that planning to go to Flint is maybe equivalent to vacationing in Ciudad Juarez. You would and probably should not choose that. But saying that you won't come to Mexico for the crime figures is as I said not going to Orange County CA because of the crime stats of Detroit.
Message is be wary be safe, but keep perspective. When you go anywhere don't stand out ,don't draw attention.
And yes every case is devastating on an individual basis.
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Old 21-10-2010, 21:51   #87
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In my opinion many of these individuals don't know what they don't know in terms of risk. Perception of risk by most people is skewed. There is a good book by Paul Slovic on how perception of risk so off base from the reality.

My point is that it is not about sailing to Mexico or staying home it's about making an eyes open decision after realistic assessment of the risk and the potential downside if things go bad.
Don't let the fear of Dying keep you from living.
Scott
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Old 21-10-2010, 23:01   #88
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"It's pretty easy to sit in the lazyboy and pooh pooh risk. Consider the following, would you visit Mexico if there was a 2% (2 people out of 100) risk of being murdered in a one year stay? Would you coastal cruise off Somalia? I think most of us would choose to sail somewhere else. It's a big planet why go where the risk is high? What is your go/no go number?"


do you speak from the experience of sitting or from the experience of GOING?

Ii speak from the experience of DOing. i go cruising on opb. i go driving in mexico. i do stuff. i even fix my boat to cruise it forever lol .
i see you lying back in your lazyboy recliner with your lappy on your lap and your feet in the air passing judgements. lol
go sailing. drive to baja and visit guerrero negro an dother lovely towns in baja sur.
get out of the house and exercise!!!! go places.. see places and things. there is so much more to life and living than exercising your fingers on a computer.
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Old 21-10-2010, 23:53   #89
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Consider the following, would you visit Mexico if there was a 2% (2 people out of 100) risk of being murdered in a one year stay? Would you coastal cruise off Somalia? I think most of us would choose to sail somewhere else. It's a big planet why go where the risk is high? What is your go/no go number?
This is perhaps the most skewed logic I've ever seen on Cruiser's Forum. Mexico hosts more than five million tourists every year from the United States alone. If 2% of those tourists were murdered annually, that would mean that more that 100,000 American tourists would be killed south of the border each year. This would nearly equate the annual casualty rate of the US military during World War ii.

Sorry, but that's just a bizarre argument. Do the math.
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Old 22-10-2010, 01:01   #90
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i see you lying back in your lazyboy recliner with your lappy on your lap and your feet in the air ...\
\
Wow... Your good..

I think that is freekier than my last trip to Mexico.

Scott
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