May I Sail to Cuba ?

[boatman61]

Homeland Security finding out the smartasses methods....

[ehh]

Maybe he went to Cuba!

[S/V Alchemy]

I just leave the whole thing alone. Trying to make the U.S.'s continued opposition to travelling to Cuba make sense is like trying to talk to fundies about Planned Parenthood or to New York Jews about something vaguely critical about Israel...it's practically a point of religion and is not a discussion that will have any affect on how the world works.

Having said that, I generally agree to abide by the laws of the countries in whose waters I travel. Why piss off the locals? On the other hand, if something is illegal for the natives, and is NOT illegal for me, and is for personal consumption, I consider it a weak pretext for tossing your boat and having guys in uniforms steal your supplies and perhaps even your boat.

It's easier for me to just take my wallet stuffed with $1.05 U.S. dollars and custom elsewhere until, in the words of Ben Franklin, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" come to their senses regarding my Cohibas, Havana Harbour charts and cinco anos rum (hint: they are not parts of a plot to overthrow the Republic).
Funnily, I have had many Americans privately concur with me about the craziness and hypocrisy involving Cuba, but they are reluctant to speak out...seems a little undemocratic to me to be intimidated into denying oneself free speech, but who am I to challenge the world's greatest democracy?

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Bash

Let's be real. Some of us were able to land professorships after only seven years of grad school.

Still seems like a bit of work to open up a travel opportunity. In my experience you need to be pretty exceptional to end up as a prof at all, much less with no postdoc(s).

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=S/V Alchemy;689771]cinco anos rum QUOTE]

Doce años Habana Club son tanto mejores...

[kevingy]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Funnily, I have had many Americans privately concur with me about the craziness and hypocrisy involving Cuba, but they are reluctant to speak out...seems a little undemocratic to me to be intimidated into denying oneself free speech, but who am I to challenge the world's greatest democracy?

For what it's worth, this American publicly concurs with you about the craziness and hypocrisy involving Cuba. I am not reluctant to speak out. It seems silly to me for politicians to cling so tightly to a cold war era policy that clearly isn't working. For whatever reason, politicians think it's political suicide to normalize relations with Cuba. I have never understood why normalizing relations with Cuba implies that the US government agrees with the policies of the Cuban government.

If the Cubans, or the people of any other country, want democracy, they'll take it, by force if necessary - regardless of what the United States does or doesn't do. That's what the people of the United States did.

[S/V Alchemy]

[QUOTE=boatman61;689776]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

cinco anos rum QUOTE]

Doce años Habana Club son tanto mejores...

What's Spanish for "pass the nutmeg"?

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by kevingy

For what it's worth, this American publicly concurs with you about the craziness and hypocrisy involving Cuba. I am not reluctant to speak out. It seems silly to me for politicians to cling so tightly to a cold war era policy that clearly isn't working. For whatever reason, politicians think it's political suicide to normalize relations with Cuba. I have never understood why normalizing relations with Cuba implies that the US government agrees with the policies of the Cuban government.

If the Cubans, or the people of any other country, want democracy, they'll take it, by force if necessary - regardless of what the United States does or doesn't do. That's what the people of the United States did.

Well, exactly, and thank you for appreciating the historical context (and the irony) of the situation. I think that a U.S. open to Cuba would've seen Castro out 20 or 30 years ago, personally.

I should watch what I wish for, however...right now, Cuba is the land of cheap vacations, rum, uncrowded beaches and inexpensive scuba diving!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by kevingy

For what it's worth, this American publicly concurs with you about the craziness and hypocrisy involving Cuba. I am not reluctant to speak out. It seems silly to me for politicians to cling so tightly to a cold war era policy that clearly isn't working. For whatever reason, politicians think it's political suicide to normalize relations with Cuba. I have never understood why normalizing relations with Cuba implies that the US government agrees with the policies of the Cuban government.

If the Cubans, or the people of any other country, want democracy, they'll take it, by force if necessary - regardless of what the United States does or doesn't do. That's what the people of the United States did.

Its the Mafia influence mate... they're still pissed because of all the Casino's and revenue they lost.....
Vendetta's are immortal

[Dick Pluta]

I am a US citizen and I have lived in the Bahamas during the winter for the last ten years. Two years ago we thought we would like to go to Cuba. After all, we would come and go from the Bahamas. Who's going to know? After doing a lot of homework we decided we didn't need to go. Here's why.

First, there are lots of exceptions...churches, academics, people with relatives in Cuba etc. If you're one of those, fine. If you're like the rest of us, basically you're screwed.

As best I can tell, the spending money rule is the issue. There are travel agencies in Nassau that will arrange a prepaid tour, so you don't spend any money. Well, the US government has caught on to that one and now you cannot receive any value from someone in Cuba directly or indirectly. A nuisance, but here's the real hook.

Sooner or later you have to come home. When you do so you fill out the re-entry form that asks what countries you visited. If you say "Cuba" you have violated the law and are subject (if memory serves) to a $2,500 fine. If you don't say "Cuba", (after all, who's going to know, right?) you have committed perjury, which is a felony.

In the first case, where you admit going to the Castroland theme park, I understand that, while technically you have broken the law, it was rarely enforced. That, however, was then and this is now so who knows what madness Homeland Security has dreamed up lately. e.g. they took away my Swiss Army knife before I could get onto the ferry to Ellis Island. Maybe they thought I was going to use it to hijack the ferry to Cuba. In any case, you have committed a crime and are subject to a penalty.

In the second case, the "don't tell" option, can you get away with it? After all, who's going to know? Bahamas Immigration doesn't talk to US Immigration about a trip that doesn't include the US, right? They aren't supposed to but...? e.g., I have an German friend who was returning from Nassau to Vienna via Atlanta. While clearing US Immigration in Nassau the Immigration officer recited not only her recent travel history, but also knew who her mother (also a German citizen) was and that she been coming to Nassau for 30 years. Who's going to know? Uncle Sugar, that's who.

If you're going in a sailboat, I was talking with one of the Coasties stationed in Nassau (Yes, the USCG has a LARGE presence in the Bahamas) and he said "A tin can doesn't float in the Florida Straits that we can't see". Good luck with that.

So, here are your choices:

a. Go and admit you went. You risk a large fine, but might get away with it. After all, someone on this thread went and got away with it. Will you? Are you willing to take the risk of being the guy they choose to make an example of? Are you a gambler?

b. Go and don't say you went. Commit a felony, risk a REALLY large fine and heavy jail time. Are you a high roller?

c. Don't go. That's what we chose. Maybe I'll live long enough to go legally.

Dick Pluta
AEGEA
Cape Coral FL

[capstan]

This is just hearsay, but I've heard the Obama administation doesn't particularly care if we go to Cuba, unlike the paranoid Bush people.

[captainKJ]

Originally Posted by capstan

This is just hearsay, but I've heard the Obama administation doesn't particularly care if we go to Cuba, unlike the paranoid Bush people.

And who did you hear this from????

a friend of a sisters boyfriend who heard it at a bar

I always believe what I hear

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by kevingy

For whatever reason, politicians think it's political suicide to normalize relations with Cuba.

Actually, the reason is pretty simple. There is a rather large population of ex-Cubans living in South Florida. They are adamantly anti-Castro. They do NOT want relations to be normalized so long as Castro (ANY Castro) is still in power.

They are also very politically active, they vote, and they work hard to influence how others vote. They have the very real potential to swing the vote in Florida, which tends to be split by narrow margins (see the 2000 elections).

Florida has 29 electoral college votes. Only California and Texas have more. As such, the vote in Florida can swing the national vote (again, see the 2000 election).

Like it or not, this gives the Cuban community in South Florida an unusually large influence in national politics. Add in the fact that the United States would benefit relatively little by normalized relations with Cuba and you end up with the situation where few, if any, politicians are willing to disrupt the status quo.

[AnchorageGuy]

First to Dick, you are not committing a felony, the travel ban and embargo are by Executive Order and you are subject to fines that can be substantial and the cost to fight them can bankrupt you. That is what the government depends on.

Next, the old guard in Miami is dieing off and the younger generation does not really care about Castro. There are currently five bills in congress to lift the travel ban and embargo, including H.R. 874 and S 428 (Freedom To Travel To Cuba Act), and both have support and stand a good chance to pass if they ever even come up for a vote. It has nothing to do with the Hispanic vote in Florida anymore and more to do with the inability of congress to get anything done right now. I don't want to move this discussion toward a political slant. Recent polls in the Cuban American community in south Florida actually show that lifting the travel restrictions and embargo is preferred to keeping it in place.

As to enforcement, all regulations, notice I did not say laws, are still in place. But the Obama Administration has much less resources dedicated to monitoring and enforcing those regulations than the previous administration. The Florida Straights are a hotbed for smuggling drugs and illegal immigration so the Coast Guard and Military presence will probably know if you are coming from Cuba. All we can do is wait for gridlock in Washington to come to an end and these bills will resurface as pressures to increase trade or challenges from the commercial sector move the bills forward. Chuck

[zeehag]

just dont spend money there lol. you CAN sail there--has been done recently and without problem by a few friends of mine.