Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-08-2012, 13:55   #16
Registered User
 
GreggL's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Boat: Hunter E33
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Pavlidis

First thing, before you ever take off for a marina...LEARN HOW TO ANCHOR!!! It may save your life and the life of your crew! Force yourself to learn how, whatever it takes, but learn how to anchor! Learning to get your boat moving is only one part of sailing, getting your boat to stop is another and is equally important.

Example...you set off for a marina a day away. You're sailing on a port tack, the shore to your starboard. It's a nice day. Wind is light and abeam and you're motorsailing. Suddenly the wind picks up...a lot. Your main blows out a seam and your genny gets stuck when you try to unfurl it. You continue to motor but the motion of your boat in the seas that have built up has dislodged debris in your fuel tank and the trash has clogged your filter and shut down your motor. You're now being blown to shore with no way to stop except what??? Your anchor!

Yeah, so it's an imaginary example, but it could just as easily be true. Do yourself and your crew a favor and learn how anchor.
Already taking your advice. Set up a few days on the water with an instructor before my trip. Thanks!
__________________

__________________
GreggL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 00:47   #17
Registered User
 
chef2sail's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Parkville, MD
Boat: C&C 35 MKIII
Posts: 147
Images: 2
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail Send a message via Skype™ to chef2sail
Learning how to anchor is the perfect advice for the reasons mentioned. It's a safety thing mot of all. Do you ave the correct tackle. I would never set Roth on any sail without knowing the correct way to anchor and having the correct gear. What is your ground ankle composed of?

Many of the places you will want to explore will not ave Marinas or docking, especially in the LI sound and north. Moorings are very common. Marinas are super expensive. Sag Harbor where we have stayed before is between 5 and 6.50 a foot or $165 -$185 a night depending where you go. Thats outragous. That's a nice dinner for two with wine. even the moorings are 75 a night there. Much more peacefully out on the hook and either dinghy or water taxi ashore.

Port Jeff, Stratford , old Saybrooke, have moorings too.

We are headed from the Chesapeake leaving August 16 and will be in Port Jeff around the 20th. We usually take a mooring at he Setauket Yacht Club (50) which includes llaunch rides. We have a dinghy on davits also. Our trip is similar in the beginning as yours as we go from Port Jeff to New London for two days. Staying in a marina there. Then Cuttyhunk and Edgartown on Martha's Vineyard. On the way back it s Point Judith, Stonington or Greenport, Northport, before we head back down the NJ coast.

I can't advise enough the importance of good ground tackle and learning how to anchor correctly. not only for safety, but eventually for the real experience of hanging out on your bat in coves and anchorages.

Feel free to on tact me though PM also. Maybe we can meet up when we are up there.

Dave
__________________

__________________
Dave and Donna
S/V Haleakula
Parkville, MD
chef2sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 06:04   #18
Registered User
 
GreggL's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Boat: Hunter E33
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail
Learning how to anchor is the perfect advice for the reasons mentioned. It's a safety thing mot of all. Do you ave the correct tackle. I would never set Roth on any sail without knowing the correct way to anchor and having the correct gear. What is your ground ankle composed of?

Many of the places you will want to explore will not ave Marinas or docking, especially in the LI sound and north. Moorings are very common. Marinas are super expensive. Sag Harbor where we have stayed before is between 5 and 6.50 a foot or $165 -$185 a night depending where you go. Thats outragous. That's a nice dinner for two with wine. even the moorings are 75 a night there. Much more peacefully out on the hook and either dinghy or water taxi ashore.

Port Jeff, Stratford , old Saybrooke, have moorings too.

We are headed from the Chesapeake leaving August 16 and will be in Port Jeff around the 20th. We usually take a mooring at he Setauket Yacht Club (50) which includes llaunch rides. We have a dinghy on davits also. Our trip is similar in the beginning as yours as we go from Port Jeff to New London for two days. Staying in a marina there. Then Cuttyhunk and Edgartown on Martha's Vineyard. On the way back it s Point Judith, Stonington or Greenport, Northport, before we head back down the NJ coast.

I can't advise enough the importance of good ground tackle and learning how to anchor correctly. not only for safety, but eventually for the real experience of hanging out on your bat in coves and anchorages.

Feel free to on tact me though PM also. Maybe we can meet up when we are up there.

Dave
I currently have a 33 lb shark plow style anchor with 10 feet of chain and 300 feet of rode. As a backup I have a 35 lb fortress with the same chain and rode setup; thinking of upgrading to more chain.
I've also heard that I may want to go a few sizes up on my primary as its cutting it close weight wise. I'll find out when I'm on the water with the instructor.
When will you be in greenport? Well be there for labor day weekend. Montauk will be the weekend before and the rest in sag harbor before heading home.
__________________
GreggL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 06:25   #19
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,967
Re: Marina reservations

Once you gain confidence anchoring, you'll do it a lot.

I would also suggest changing your primary anchor to one of recent design. The waters you are cruising have a variety of bottom conditions. Some very challenging for an anchor.

The Rocna or Manson Supreme are the easy choices. Holding strength is really not the most important thing in anchoring - it's whether the anchor will set quickly and - just as importantly - reset after a wind change (the one that comes at 3AM). My old CQR plow was a very strong anchor when well set - I used it for 20 years - but it also required a lot of experience to set it well and careful checking after any wind change.

My Manson Supreme sets so reliably that my 40 years of hard earned anchoring knowledge (and special "anchor" prayers) is of little value.

Carl
__________________
CarlF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 09:13   #20
Registered User
 
chef2sail's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Parkville, MD
Boat: C&C 35 MKIII
Posts: 147
Images: 2
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail Send a message via Skype™ to chef2sail
I agree with Carl. We have a Rocna as our primary because it resets quickly and also does well in a variety of differing bottom conditions. You need to have a minimum of 35 ft of chain. Preferably more as you are in a rocky area and don't need the rocks sawing your anchor line for one, and the chain will help the cantenary angle of your anchor line when you set it. Try and keep a 7:1 scope if your swing allows it. Remember to include your freeboard in determining this. If you anchor in 10 feet of water and your freeboard is 6 ft it's 7X16 ft=112 ft of line and chain to the anchor. Get the markers cheap to mark off every 30 ft on the anchor line so you can judge.

Anchoring is reasonably easy once you learn it correctly. I am the anchor person with my wife at the helm backing the boat down. Remember don't just drop everything all at once or the chain will pile right on top of the anchor. make sure you back down to set it. The advantage of the new gen anchors is they reset quickly. When you learn from your instructor ask about employing a Kellet type setting since you will be anchoring in a lot of areas of current and reversing tides. This helps prevent anchor wrap around the keel. You have a wing so especially relevant for you.

Anchoring correctly in the beginning requires a little practice but once you get it you got it. Set an alarm if you have a phone...I use an app called DragQueen. My Chartplotter has one also, but uses more ah.

Do you have any type of windlass?

Davw
__________________
Dave and Donna
S/V Haleakula
Parkville, MD
chef2sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 10:48   #21
Registered User
 
GreggL's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Boat: Hunter E33
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail
I agree with Carl. We have a Rocna as our primary because it resets quickly and also does well in a variety of differing bottom conditions. You need to have a minimum of 35 ft of chain. Preferably more as you are in a rocky area and don't need the rocks sawing your anchor line for one, and the chain will help the cantenary angle of your anchor line when you set it. Try and keep a 7:1 scope if your swing allows it. Remember to include your freeboard in determining this. If you anchor in 10 feet of water and your freeboard is 6 ft it's 7X16 ft=112 ft of line and chain to the anchor. Get the markers cheap to mark off every 30 ft on the anchor line so you can judge.

Anchoring is reasonably easy once you learn it correctly. I am the anchor person with my wife at the helm backing the boat down. Remember don't just drop everything all at once or the chain will pile right on top of the anchor. make sure you back down to set it. The advantage of the new gen anchors is they reset quickly. When you learn from your instructor ask about employing a Kellet type setting since you will be anchoring in a lot of areas of current and reversing tides. This helps prevent anchor wrap around the keel. You have a wing so especially relevant for you.

Anchoring correctly in the beginning requires a little practice but once you get it you got it. Set an alarm if you have a phone...I use an app called DragQueen. My Chartplotter has one also, but uses more ah.

Do you have any type of windlass?

Davw
Unfortunately no windlass but I'm still pretty young and the few times I'll anchor I don't see an issue hoisting a 40 something pounder which is the size I'll probably go for to be safe. Picking up extra chain and am looking into upgrading the anchor soon hopefully. Thanks for the advice!
__________________
GreggL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 10:58   #22
Registered User
 
GreggL's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Boat: Hunter E33
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF
Once you gain confidence anchoring, you'll do it a lot.

I would also suggest changing your primary anchor to one of recent design. The waters you are cruising have a variety of bottom conditions. Some very challenging for an anchor.

The Rocna or Manson Supreme are the easy choices. Holding strength is really not the most important thing in anchoring - it's whether the anchor will set quickly and - just as importantly - reset after a wind change (the one that comes at 3AM). My old CQR plow was a very strong anchor when well set - I used it for 20 years - but it also required a lot of experience to set it well and careful checking after any wind change.

My Manson Supreme sets so reliably that my 40 years of hard earned anchoring knowledge (and special "anchor" prayers) is of little value.

Carl
I'm looking into the rocna and am all about the philosophy that safety equipment should not be taken lightly, literally. So I'm thinking of getting the 44 pound rocna. My boat is 33 feet and is in the 12-15,000 lb range. According to their sizing guides, this is overkill, what do you think?
__________________
GreggL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 18:47   #23
Registered User
 
chef2sail's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Parkville, MD
Boat: C&C 35 MKIII
Posts: 147
Images: 2
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail Send a message via Skype™ to chef2sail
Way overkill. Make sure the Rocna fits beneath your roller bail and conforms to your bow. It has quite a different shape. The Manson Supreme s very similar and just as good and is cheaper. You would be ok with he Rocna 15 but for overkill get the 20. Make sure you use y our boat to break the anchor out not your back as these guys dig in really well. Get your instructor to show you how this is done. It involves bringing the oat over the anchor, cleating the rode and leting the bost pull it out. Get a good pair of gardening gloves to handle the rope and chain also. Your fingers will get mangled otherwise. In the future you will want to get at least a manual windlass as well as a wash down system so you don't bring muck from the bottom into your anchor locker where it will decay and smell you boat up.

Dave
__________________
Dave and Donna
S/V Haleakula
Parkville, MD
chef2sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 06:39   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 928
Re: Marina reservations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Pavlidis View Post
. LEARN HOW TO ANCHOR!!! .

Yeah, so it's an imaginary example, but it could just as easily be true. Do yourself and your crew a favor and learn how anchor.

Well, if anything's going to happen, it'll happen out here.
__________________
SecondBase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 06:53   #25
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in Oriental NC
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 2,892
Re: Marina Reservations

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggL View Post
NYC to Sag Harbor. Using sag harbor as a jump off point to hit montauk and greenport while out there. August 16-labor day.
Going to try to stop in port Jeff, Stratford, and old saybrook on the way out, I'm in no rush and want to explore a bit.
I would actually consider anchoring on the south side of Shelter Island, in Smith's Cove. Gorgeous spot, as the SE third of Shelter is all undeveloped wildlife preserve. You're surrounded by a beautiful curving beach and very clean water, and good holding. I rode out the remnants of TS Andrea there, and didn't budge in 30 knots of wind . It's a bout a three mile dinghy ride to Sag Harbor. Sag itself will cost you a fortune.

It's been mentioned that getting dockside or in a slip is more challenging than anchoring and that is generally true. Mooring fields, as well, tend to be crowded and the one at Sag is no exception...that's the whole point of a mooring field...packing more boats into a limited area.

The only moorings in Greenport are managed by the town marina, are expensive, and are first come first serve. It's even tighter quarters than Sag and you have to wedge yourself into Stirling Harbor (should be called a creek, it's small) and then actually find one of the town moorings among the private ones. Unfortunately, there are OK spots to anchor a bit north of Stirling, around the breakwater.

The only way to get comfortable anchoring is by doing it. It's not actually all that hard. If in doubt, set the anchor hard and let out more scope. The only issue is that in unfamiliar waters it may not be a good idea to leave the boat until you've been through a 24 hour tide cycle.
__________________
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 07:02   #26
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in Oriental NC
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 2,892
Re: Marina Reservations

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggL View Post
I'm looking into the rocna and am all about the philosophy that safety equipment should not be taken lightly, literally. So I'm thinking of getting the 44 pound rocna. My boat is 33 feet and is in the 12-15,000 lb range. According to their sizing guides, this is overkill, what do you think?
That is in fact the anchor that I would choose for your boat. It's not even at the top end of their recommended size for your boat, so it's not overkill. I'm eventually going to swap out the CQR I have for a Rocna on my 40' 22k lb. Valiant and I'll go with the next size up, the 55 lb.
__________________
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 07:35   #27
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,770
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Marina Reservations

reservations for marinas on a cruise--is sailing to a schedule.not good practice.....i go places then anchor and watch the traffic. if i like the place i will go into marina ro summer--down here, ost folks whop are not full time cruisers have to return to a specific latitude by a specific date, leaving all kinds of room in the good places i like to visit. the rates drop on the day allthe nonpermanent and insured cruising types leave the area--here the rate dropped to a lovely 25 cents per foot per day per month..i can afford that---so i go into marinas then and repair.
i usually anchor out in high season, when the prices on marina slips is 68 cents per foot per day per month...biig difference.
have a good anchor and know how to use it properly--practice a lot.

this marina is very posh, so , before i granny klampetted into here, this time under tow by panga, i went to office , introduced self and boat and made my arrangements. this is the most advanced warning i have given any marina in over 2 years.

when we cruised gulf of mexico, we would call marina on vhf to see if there was slippage available for transients--usually there was, so wasnt a problem.

damn, i lost my rocker in that last storm--need new rocking chair for bow.....
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 10:20   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
FSMike's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bahamas/Florida
Boat: Solaris Sunstar 36' catamaran
Posts: 2,654
Images: 5
Re: Marina Reservations

GreggL -
If your lack of experience has you nervous you might want to plan your sailing dates so as not to be underway anywhere near the Labor Day weekend. 9 Gazillion boats on the water, not to mention no room at the inn (marinas) and very crowded anchorages.
Enjoy your new boat!
__________________
Sail Fast Live Slow
FSMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 10:40   #29
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,385
Re: Marina Reservations

Gregg,

Nice to see you over here, too.

Anchoring consists of two things:

1. An anchor SYSTEM

2. Knowledge of how to use it, which only comes from experience. While it's good to have someone show you, I'm guessing most of us have learned from books and articles over the years.

Here are some links for you, good reading on a rainy day:

Anchoring 101 Anchors & TEST Results of New Generation Anchors EXCELLENT & Important

Anchor Selection 101 includes good discussions of various system selections and pictures of new generation anchors on bowsprits both short and extended Roll bar anchors on bow roller

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & SwivelsGround Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

Please note that with the same boat, Steve and I chose very different systems. Different uses, same boat.

West Marine Advisors, too

The West Advisor: Anchoring Techniques
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 10:46   #30
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Marina reservations

Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondBase View Post
Well, if anything's going to happen, it'll happen out here.

Speaking as someone who has more recently learned to sail than most here, putting the hook down gives you time to think a problem through that's new to you. Probably something that people here have dealt with dozens of times, but it will be new to you.
__________________

__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.