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Old 09-09-2011, 09:55   #106
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
The EU doesn't ask its member state citizens to fill anything out on return, wave the passport thats all.
Nor does it require visiting foreign yachtsmen to do anything specific, other then clear into the Schengen area once. ( if your from a non-visa country thats it.)

What an enlightened place
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You do not "wave" your passport. Your passport contains an RFID chip with all the information about you that is being read by a system and information is being saved and processed. It's no different than a paper form, except of course some people get to call it "wave" and feel "more free".

Checking into European ports is about as easy/difficult (according to your definition) as is checking into a US port (when arriving from another US port or foreign land etc).

In my experience, there is no additional "freedom" in dealing with European customs/border procedures as opposed to those in US and, in some cases, there is less.
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:59   #107
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

HS, Those statistic are fairly correct but what statistics don't tell you is who these people are. A big percentage are Cuban-Americans that are allowed to travel to visit relatives, and as the Jimmy Buffet song goes, "everyone has a cousin in Miami". The other big percentage is legitimate journalists and special interest groups such as Local, State and Federal officials promoting trade agreements. Add to that the large relief organizations. They generally take a large entourage along for the ride. But we are talking about the average folks here like you and I trying to get there through sanctioned permissions. Many of the groups that have permission to travel are not going to just sign up new members so that someone can travel to Cuba. If anyone has any doubts at all about this I suggest rather than looking for numbers to try and prove a point one way or another, make the application, find a group that will accept you and allow you to travel, or give us a FIRST HAND example of someone that has actually done this and what steps they took. There are exceptions to every rule, but taking our boats to Cuba is not one of them right now. Chuck
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:10   #108
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

HS, Here is the New York Times take on how many and who visits...
"The new changes, which come on top of loosened restrictions for Cubans and Cuban-Americans visiting relatives in Cuba, are expected to push the number of travelers visiting Cuba this year to 450,000 this year. “We estimate 375,000 to 400,000 Cuban Americans will visit this year and another 50,000 in other categories of legal travel,” said Mr. Guild of Marazul. "
Notice these are Cuban-Americans allowed to travel under the Presidents new Executive Order. Chuck
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:38   #109
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

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I have worked very closely with Commodore Jose Escrich, Head of the Hemmingway Yacht club and head of the Marlin Group, which manages and develops all of the marinas in Cuba. I have recently received an invitation from him to come to Havana and discuss the preparations that are now under way in anticipation of the travel restrictions being lifted. I have been in communications with members of Congress and the State Department for over 8 years regarding the lifting of the travel ban. Oh, and I have been to Cuba legally with my boat. The point I am trying to make and you are missing is that the official State Department requirements for travel are only grant to a very few and under very strict requirements. You can apply for a license all you want for whatever reason is acceptable under the current State Department requirements. But they are not going to grant you permission and you will not be able to go legally without that permission. You can't go to Mexico or the Bahamas and legally go to Cuba if you are U.S. Citizen. There are no legal loopholes for the average citizen and especially if you are trying to go by boat. As I stated previously, I have been directly involved in this issue for years and are not just typing my opinion on a keyboard. HR 4645 has 178 House co-sponsors, while a similar measure in the Senate has 33 co-sponsors.The Bill is also endorsed by the agricultural and travel industry and wide support from the Chamber of Commerce. What else would you like to know? Chuck
So you DID go to Cuba legally, good thing you didn't read your own POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean REALLY, from the man arguing it can't be done?????????????????

WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW............ Toooo Riiiccchhh!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:48   #110
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

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So you DID go to Cuba legally, good thing you didn't read your own POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean REALLY, from the man arguing it can't be done?????????????????
Read carefully what he said. HE went to Cuba leagally, YOU can't go to Cuba leagally, yet.
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Old 09-09-2011, 13:19   #111
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

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Originally Posted by Tumbleweed50 View Post
So you DID go to Cuba legally, good thing you didn't read your own POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean REALLY, from the man arguing it can't be done?????????????????

WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW............ Toooo Riiiccchhh!!!!!!!!!!!
Not sure what your issues are. As a Journalist working on assignment for a legitimate publication, Soundings Magazine, I have and can go to Cuba legally. So can you IF you meet that criteria. Chuck
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Old 09-09-2011, 13:59   #112
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

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Not sure what your issues are. As a Journalist working on assignment for a legitimate publication, Soundings Magazine, I have and can go to Cuba legally. So can you IF you meet that criteria. Chuck
I guess my issue is that the law seems pretty clear to me. You're allowed to travel because your a Journalist, just so happens that one occupation is covered by the current law (far from the only one) even free lance journalists are allowed. As are many others "Other Specific Licenses".

The law works FOR, you as well as against you. It just seems ironic and strangely, very funny, that the man that is saying the law doesn't mean what it says, is using that same law to travel to Cuba.

Art
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Old 09-09-2011, 14:09   #113
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

happily I'm unscribing to this thread.
have fun guys, it keeps you from doing productive work.
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Old 09-09-2011, 15:01   #114
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Re: Lying when Entering the US

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You do not "wave" your passport. Your passport contains an RFID chip with all the information about you that is being read by a system and information is being saved and processed. It's no different than a paper form, except of course some people get to call it "wave" and feel "more free".

Checking into European ports is about as easy/difficult (according to your definition) as is checking into a US port (when arriving from another US port or foreign land etc).

In my experience, there is no additional "freedom" in dealing with European customs/border procedures as opposed to those in US and, in some cases, there is less.
eh no, EU passports unless you specifically request it, are not as yet fitted with RFID biometric data. and in fact when they are its a contact form.

The EU is far simpler for a US citizen to enter, then a EU citizen to enter the US.


Lets examine this in detail

* US, non citizen requires a full VISA( even visa wavier countries) , apply well before hand, subjec to interview and expensive, anything other then a road traffic misdemeanour and you aint getting in.

* US, non-citizen, must apply for a cruising license, or check in at every port in the country

* US, non-citizen , will be subject to fingerprinting

* Advance notification is being considered for sailors

* Violations of your visa, will prevent you from ever entering the country again.



* EU, non-citizen, if from visa wavier, may enter EU purely on standard passport, visa is automatically entered into passport, rules that apply at airport are applied to private yacht entry.

*EU, non-citizen, once inside the Schengen area, are not required to check in again, ( though many do and some port authorities ask for it )

*EU, non-citizen, no further security checks, no cruising licenses, etc ( except Greece).

* for Visa wavier countries, no checking of law violations, unless of course youre on a watch list

* No advance notification is being considered, even the UK has dropped it as an option.

* In reality at most EU ports, US private sailors, will be expedited and rarely if ever subject to customs.

* Visa violations have been treated leniently, especially overstays, mostly ignored and passports re stamped and time extended.


Foreign visitors to the US are basically treated as suspect terrorists, EU visitors are treated as tourists.

I'm sorry but in 25 years of both living in the US, sailing to teh US, working in, and working and visiting the US, its sad to see that great country descend to this.

I understand why though, dont get me wrong, very few non-US sailors other then Canadians sail to the US, and Canadians therefore rightly get preferential treatment and the rest get treated with a much higher degree of suspicion. The EU countries have a huge marine tradition that goes back centuries, with trade and visiting vessels between countries by sea playing an enormous part in that.

Dave
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