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Old 01-09-2016, 03:43   #106
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish View Post
All I care about is the University picking up after itself. Please try to stay on topic. If you wish to start another thread concerning insurance I will be glad to frustrate you there too. Hugs and kisses.
And YOUR plan for "picking up after yourself"?

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Old 01-09-2016, 03:47   #107
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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As for drifting mid Atlantic. What happens to yachts after a coast Guard rescue? They lift you off with helicopter IF you are lucky. and your yacht is left to drift until is sinks. At least this one is telling everyone where it is. As for any small minded person claiming salvage rights. The project does not have any money to pay for recovery: so If you can not be big enough to Volunteer? Please leave it alone. when it drifts closer to land surely some one will be big hearted enough to bring it in and give it back?
Precisely!!!

But I am sure that all these folks spewing... have a plan to go back, find, and retrieve their craft.
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:50   #108
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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With all the floating trash, including abandoned cruise ships, this little thing is just an excuse to vent. If you are really concerned about the condition of the sea pick a worthwhile cause.
You nailed that one right in the head. I guess we could look at the bright side, some of that floating junk makes a great FAD.
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:19   #109
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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You are foolish not to have an AIS transponder in bluewater.
Has nothing to do with the subject, I know. But, could you please explain to me what you believe how an AIS transponder would be able to do anything out there on the ocean for someone who is only relying on the normal VHF transmission and has no expensive Satellite-equipment for this purpose installed?
I might be wrong. As far as my information goes the AIS only works via the land-based stations who then send out the signal for ships to receive. A ship without satellite-equipment on the high seas is unable to transmit its position to the station and can neither be seen on the AIS, nor can the ship see any other AIS around.
Fair winds
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:26   #110
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Play nice kids!
Some sound much less mature than the kids with the experiment.
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:46   #111
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Has nothing to do with the subject, I know. But, could you please explain to me what you believe how an AIS transponder would be able to do anything out there on the ocean for someone who is only relying on the normal VHF transmission and has no expensive Satellite-equipment for this purpose installed?
I might be wrong. As far as my information goes the AIS only works via the land-based stations who then send out the signal for ships to receive. A ship without satellite-equipment on the high seas is unable to transmit its position to the station and can neither be seen on the AIS, nor can the ship see any other AIS around.
Fair winds
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AIS transmits between boats about the same range as VHF. You do not need satellite equipment to receive a signal from another ship.


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Old 02-09-2016, 10:51   #112
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by Dody View Post
Has nothing to do with the subject, I know. But, could you please explain to me what you believe how an AIS transponder would be able to do anything out there on the ocean for someone who is only relying on the normal VHF transmission and has no expensive Satellite-equipment for this purpose installed?
I might be wrong. As far as my information goes the AIS only works via the land-based stations who then send out the signal for ships to receive. A ship without satellite-equipment on the high seas is unable to transmit its position to the station and can neither be seen on the AIS, nor can the ship see any other AIS around.
Fair winds
Dody
AIS does have satellite and terrestrial components but is primarily a VHF-based system where vessels broadcast their identity, position, course, speed and a few other bits of information periodically over the air to any other vessels within range of their transmission. If two AIS-equipped vessels are within VHF range of each other, they will "see" each other and know if there is any danger of collision, based upon this information. The terrestrial and satellite components are primarily for tracking purposes rather than collision avoidance.

-David
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:05   #113
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

If your AIS is operating only with a VHF antenna then it must be a receive only unit. Its range will be whatever the VHF antenna offers in the vicinity of 15-20 miles. If your unit also has the capacity to link to a GPS mushroom, it will be called a Class B, then the unit will be capable of transmitting and receiving. The range will be world wide.

Class B is safer but costs more.
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:17   #114
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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If your AIS is operating only with a VHF antenna then it must be a receive only unit. Its range will be whatever the VHF antenna offers in the vicinity of 15-20 miles. If your unit also has the capacity to link to a GPS mushroom, it will be called a Class B, then the unit will be capable of transmitting and receiving. The range will be world wide.

Class B is safer but costs more.
Yes, you need a class B transponder in order to transmit your vessel information. Many recent VHF radios incorporate a receive-only AIS capability, and can forward that information to your chart plotter for display. This allows you to "see" other vessels, but they cannot "see" you. Class B transponders, such as the Vesper XB-6000, often incorporate their own GPS receiver so that they are not reliant on an external unit.

When AIS was created it was not anticipated that the signals would be detectable from orbit, but it turned out that satellites could receive the signals, and now can relay the data collected to ground stations, where it is aggregated with data from other ground-based receivers. This is where the worldwide coverage comes from, not from the line-of-sight VHF transmission directly.

Pretty cool system :-)
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Old 02-09-2016, 13:37   #115
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

I Have been informed that radio contact with the sailbot Ada has been lost. With out steerage to point into the 35 foot waves the storm damage appears to have silenced its transmissions. So It is not known If it has sunk. It did have 17 watertight compartments. However the weather reports for the north Atlantic continue to worsen.

In conclusion I have been most surprised by some of the harsh comments and negative postings about this sailing experiment. I always thought that the information gained potentially could provide useful upgrades to current Autopilot technology? Perhaps IF this were available? Some of the most ardent dissenters would be only too happy to use it?


I suggest the time has come for the moderators to close this thread.
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Old 02-09-2016, 14:53   #116
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Re: AIS MISCONCEPTIONS

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
If your AIS is operating only with a VHF antenna then it must be a receive only unit. Its range will be whatever the VHF antenna offers in the vicinity of 15-20 miles. If your unit also has the capacity to link to a GPS mushroom, it will be called a Class B, then the unit will be capable of transmitting and receiving. The range will be world wide.

Class B is safer but costs more.
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Originally Posted by Davidhoy View Post
Yes, you need a class B transponder in order to transmit your vessel information. Many recent VHF radios incorporate a receive-only AIS capability, and can forward that information to your chart plotter for display. This allows you to "see" other vessels, but they cannot "see" you. Class B transponders, such as the Vesper XB-6000, often incorporate their own GPS receiver so that they are not reliant on an external unit.

When AIS was created it was not anticipated that the signals would be detectable from orbit, but it turned out that satellites could receive the signals, and now can relay the data collected to ground stations, where it is aggregated with data from other ground-based receivers. This is where the worldwide coverage comes from, not from the line-of-sight VHF transmission directly.

Pretty cool system :-)
Please try to understand AIS. It broadcasts on VHF. Both Class A and Class B.

The GPS is a SATELLITE RECEIVER (only) that lets the AIS system know where it is. It has NOTHING to do with TRANSMITTING a signal. The GPS (from multiple satellites ) is broadcast on VHF to let others know your position and speed, and heading. (speed and heading calculated over time and previous GPS position.)

There are satellites in space that receive VHF (and AIS signals) and pass them to the ground.

Just had to chime in here...
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Old 02-09-2016, 15:01   #117
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Re: Autonomous Vessels...

As to the concept of Autonomous Vessels....


riiiiiight.....

It they can make a floating object so reliable that it does not need human intervention, no leaky valves, busted pumps, dirty fuel tanks, damage from floating debris, damage from excessive winds or waves... I shall be impressed.

and I shall want a version for my recreational purposes...

Yet, over almost the continuum of mankind on this planet... we have fallen far far short of this 'ideal' vessel.

There is something good about being able to have a body that has a brain attached to 'jury rig' or repair a pear shaped situation....
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Old 02-09-2016, 15:02   #118
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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I Have been informed that radio contact with the sailboat Ada has been lost.

In conclusion I have been most surprised by some of the harsh comments
So sad. Our thoughts go out to the family, wifi, Motherboard and the poor little chips.
I have been following this thread and have been gobsmacked by some of the comments from armchair sailors who think they own the oceans, especially those from the far north who, really, should be worrying about their desk-chairs running into unmarked icebergs and not hating on science and the young.
Will nobody think of the children?.
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Old 02-09-2016, 15:16   #119
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by Davidhoy View Post
Yes, you need a class B transponder in order to transmit your vessel information. Many recent VHF radios incorporate a receive-only AIS capability, and can forward that information to your chart plotter for display. This allows you to "see" other vessels, but they cannot "see" you. Class B transponders, such as the Vesper XB-6000, often incorporate their own GPS receiver so that they are not reliant on an external unit.

When AIS was created it was not anticipated that the signals would be detectable from orbit, but it turned out that satellites could receive the signals, and now can relay the data collected to ground stations, where it is aggregated with data from other ground-based receivers. This is where the worldwide coverage comes from, not from the line-of-sight VHF transmission directly.

Pretty cool system :-)
Very true. I understand that the United States Homeland Security collects all AIS signals for ship/boat tracking. I wouldnt be surprised if the Defence Departments Sig Intel is not monitoring internationally and making available Intel to Homeland when requested for a specific target. It is known that NSA provides data Intel to Homeland and law enforcement for investigation targets including criminal etc. that has nothing to do with National Security.

Bottom line. If you don't want to be tracked and located in virtually any place in the world, use receive only AIS. On the other hand if you don't mind being tracked then what the heck. Many would say if you have nothing to hide why even try to hide.

By the way, if you have a satellite phone and you want to be unseen. Put it in either the microwave if you don't use the microwave or fridge. Don't put it in a freezer because it can damage your battery. Another tracking protection is to take your sat phone and mobile phones batteries out of your devices.

Also be careful the way you set up your VHF to your GPS.

But like I said. Many including myself don't care about being tracked. And a good AIS send and receive can make for much safer navigation.

By the way. If you think what I have said is crazy. Check out the use of networked cameras on freeways that feed license plate data to computers and can be used to track a target. Add to that face recognition that is also being used at airports you have a networked mesh of surveillance that is incredibly sophisticated and pervasive.

If it effectively catches the bad guys then it is probably a good thing. That is if you want to make a moral judgement about such things.

All of the above is based on supposition, conjecture and my imagination and not the product of any special knowledge.
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Old 02-09-2016, 16:00   #120
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by coastalexplorer View Post
I Have been informed that radio contact with the sailbot Ada has been lost. With out steerage to point into the 35 foot waves the storm damage appears to have silenced its transmissions. So It is not known If it has sunk. It did have 17 watertight compartments. However the weather reports for the north Atlantic continue to worsen.

In conclusion I have been most surprised by some of the harsh comments and negative postings about this sailing experiment. I always thought that the information gained potentially could provide useful upgrades to current Autopilot technology? Perhaps IF this were available? Some of the most ardent dissenters would be only too happy to use it?


I suggest the time has come for the moderators to close this thread.
They are not against using technology only against developing it. If you can buy it off the shelf of a supermarket like a GPS-unit, its fine. But 'how dare you thinking about developing and testing new systems setting them loose in the North Atlantic.

I for one congratulate those students and their profs for working so hard on this experiment. Failure is part of science. The next try will be even closer to success, because of the data collected! I hope they get funded again.
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