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Old 31-08-2016, 11:31   #31
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Are you aware of the death of a Tesla driver who was using the cars auto navigation system. Other autonomous related deaths have been recorded.
Yes I am, and have read a good bit about it.

Autonomy will never be perfect. Human drivers aren't perfect either and if perfection is a legislated requirement for autonomy it will never happen.

Maybe that's a viable tactic for your efforts. Demand legislated perfection.

Do you know why the Tesla accident occured?
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:36   #32
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Your contention that some posters here are against making money. What utter nonsense. None of my concerns were regarding making money. You have not dealt with, insurance, regulations, existing laws. I don't care how many laser sensors you have onboard. I don't care if you now dress it up as a project that can lead to research vessels and other "socially conscious endeavours.

Rolls Royse with far more money invested in drone ships than your University admits drone ships do not comply with current laws. Those laws are there for a good reason.

I can see a whole new piracy industry built around fouling these drone ships props and then boarding, disconnecting power for signalling than loot and pillage at will.

My central objection about the University project itself and the broader concept of drone ships has not been dealt with. Namely safe navigation.

After the court rooms end up killing drone cars following the first wave of wrongful death law suits I hope the same will occur for drone ships. Not all that we can think up is of itself a good idea or socially responsible.
No, I was more poking fun at the guy who seemed to be insinuating that this would have been ok if it had been in pursuit of profit, instead of in the hands of 'childish' scientists.

And like I said, this thing is waaaaaaaaaay less likely to collide with anything than a single-hander - it's awake 24/7 and can see in the dark!

As to your point about drone cars - they are a LOT safer than humans driving. Humans are actually goddamn awful generally at driving - look at the amount of fatal accidents per afternoon in any major metropolitan area.

This kind of drone vessel will be mainly used for tiny cheap inexpensive survey work - for passenger/cargo aircraft and ships you still need a human on board for when things go wrong. Although they are great at normal operations, AI/Computers just cannot do the very particular kind of thinking/problem solving needed to resolve an issue - look at flight Quantas 32. That was only a happy ending due to the combined problem solving of 3 captains - the damage control computer got overloaded and died.
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:41   #33
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

So if my boat, currently crossing the Atlantic, hits this object, Photos taken of object and boat limps into port:
Will University pay? Would I have a case against them?
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:44   #34
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Quick! Check the Amendments to your Consitution! How DARE they break Amendment 116 "Right to Freely Have Every Wave to Myself".
Of course, its OK to have autonomous taxis in Washington DC from next July, but on our OCEAN??

And look where this 10 foot bit of plank is: Right in the MIDDLE of where so many sailors go! Directly between Newfoundland and whats that Leprechaun country called? Its a highway of cruising boats out there, a motorway, a turnpike, and autobahn... Even Boatman61 has cruised accross there back in 1850.


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Old 31-08-2016, 11:52   #35
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by alctel View Post
No, I was more poking fun at the guy who seemed to be insinuating that this would have been ok if it had been in pursuit of profit, instead of in the hands of 'childish' scientists.

And like I said, this thing is waaaaaaaaaay less likely to collide with anything than a single-hander - it's awake 24/7 and can see in the dark!

As to your point about drone cars - they are a LOT safer than humans driving. Humans are actually goddamn awful generally at driving - look at the amount of fatal accidents per afternoon in any major metropolitan area.

This kind of drone vessel will be mainly used for tiny cheap inexpensive survey work - for passenger/cargo aircraft and ships you still need a human on board for when things go wrong. Although they are great at normal operations, AI/Computers just cannot do the very particular kind of thinking/problem solving needed to resolve an issue - look at flight Quantas 32. That was only a happy ending due to the combined problem solving of 3 captains - the damage control computer got overloaded and died.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti technology by any stretch of the imagination. The reverse. I also can see how advancements in sensor and optical anti collision technology can benefit all of us. Having said that I think automated boaters could appropriate a lot of anti collision tech that has been developed by the car industry around the world.

Being in the electronics design, development and manufacturing industry I know how prices can drop dramatically based on economies of scale. Cheaper anti collision tech could have a big benefit for boaters.

Now that all said. I am still not in favor of drone ships or experimental floating apparatus floating on the seas.

My concerns would be a abated somewhat if the drone ship makers were required to fund affordable anti collision warning tech for all vessels using the high seas.
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:08   #36
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti technology by any stretch of the imagination.
That was not my impression reading this thread
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:34   #37
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Sheesh, It's amazing how many A-holes pop up with their opinions on this site. It's gotten so that you can hardly use the site as it was intended any longer. The post is someone asking for a hand with towing the craft back, not your stupid paranoid self important opinions.

Silence is better than bull$#!t
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:47   #38
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Originally Posted by GreenIssue
Sheesh, It's amazing how many A-holes pop up with their opinions on this site. It's gotten so that you can hardly use the site as it was intended any longer. The post is someone asking for a hand with towing the craft back, not your stupid paranoid self important opinions.

Silence is better than bull$#!t


Name calling? Maybe we could call this Cruisers Silence instead or Cruisers Forum. You know, a place where people stop sharing ideas. Or perhaps you could practice what you preach and remain silent?
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Old 31-08-2016, 13:00   #39
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by GreenIssue
Sheesh, It's amazing how many A-holes pop up with their opinions on this site. It's gotten so that you can hardly use the site as it was intended any longer. The post is someone asking for a hand with towing the craft back, not your stupid paranoid self important opinions.

Silence is better than bull$#!t


Name calling? Maybe we could call this Cruisers Silence instead or Cruisers Forum. You know, a place where people stop sharing ideas. Or perhaps you could practice what you preach and remain silent?
GreenIssue is right. I can't help but wonder how many that are worried about a paddle board ever sailed a mud puddle. My computer might hit it.
If I'm being an A-hole so be it.
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Old 31-08-2016, 13:05   #40
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Green Issue is right. I can't help but wonder how many that are worried about a paddle board ever sailed a mud puddle. My computer might hit it.

Perhaps you could respond with logic and reason to back up your supposition? Or is this just feelings?
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Old 31-08-2016, 13:16   #41
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Cool project!
Let's hope the keyboard warriors have had their say now so we can get back on topic and help locate this thing!
https://track.ubctransat.com/tracking
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Old 31-08-2016, 13:44   #42
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Green Issue is right. I can't help but wonder how many that are worried about a paddle board ever sailed a mud puddle. My computer might hit it.

Perhaps you could respond with logic and reason to back up your supposition? Or is this just feelings?
It is just feeling. Some are just not logical responses. It is coming, probably not in my lifetime but I don't really see these kids having any part of it.
It is an experiment with nothing more than a paddle board and a plea to recover it. Getting your shorts in a wad about crewless ships seems over the edge. Maybe someone will come across it and haul it back. I don't see it as a torpedo sinking someone.
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Old 31-08-2016, 14:05   #43
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Sort of an interesting parallel here, since ADA lost its rudder, or it is unresponsive, it is unlikely to go careening at 12.x knots into your hull, if you were there. It would be a lot like running into a paddle board if you encountered it at night.

At the end of the day, I'd rather not have a collision with an unlit object that I could not expect to see on watch at night.

Maybe they can wait till it drifts further south east, maybe it'll be kindly returned from Spain. Maybe it'll just remain out there, a hazard to navigation, but given its size and mass, it is not a great hazard.

It is not so much ADA, specifically, as the principle of sending out potentially dangerous objects that is the issue. And, even if it makes me a s**t in someone's estimation, because I do not want "my" ocean littered, I am not in favor of it at all. If it had lights, so it could be seen at night, and if it's sail were high visibility fire engine color, so you could see it in daylight, then, to me, that's different.


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Old 31-08-2016, 14:06   #44
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

I don't blame the kids for creating the vessel. I do blame the university and its oversight in not complying with regulations that you a I are subject to. Would it be too much to ask the university to go and retrieve their sponsored project? Hold them responsible for their future oceanic garbage? What contingencies did they have in place for an inoperative condition. Chase vessel? What damage could it do? Well lets see, it could blow off the top of a wave during high winds and strike something soft and warm. Get tangled in a prop? Who knows, but I'm sure the university did their due diligence in thinking this thru right? Does the university hold no responsibility in cleaning their mess because they are presumed to be benevolent? The point is whatever the damage, it still is something that's floating out there regardless if some people dismiss its danger.
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Old 31-08-2016, 14:22   #45
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Oh come on, Chaya. This is being totally PC and OTT. Have you never done something a little off centre? Give the students a break and let them live. Besides, if you wish to quote chapter and verse of ColRegs then its also encumbent upon you to keep watch as well, 24/7. If you should bump into the student vessel (and if you look at its position that is unlikely for most sail boats) its looks as though you would not hear or feel anything.
As others have written, there are many more sensitive things to rant about from shipping containers, long line fishing, Seine nets, dolphin killing, whale hunters, toxic pollution/dumping, illegal fishing, turtle habitat destruction etc etc. Lets be critical of something meaningful and moan about that instead.
Good luck to the student project.




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Interesting project. Now we have to worry about sailing vessel drones. The project itself raise a number of legal questions. I don't mean to be mean but I think you guys should have sort advice from your University Law Department.

Issues:

1. Navigating a vessel without adhering to COL Regs regarding standing watch

2. Without a human watch the unmanned vessel presents a clear and present danger to other vessels.

3. From a photo of the vessel it appears the vessel gas no navigation lights

4. According to international salvage law an abandoned vessel which means a vessel that is san humans becomes the property of the person / vessel who takes it under tow and brings it back to land.

Placing a warning to keep clear on the hull does not satsfy any nautical law to not present as a danger to other vessels navigating the high seas. Who in the name of sound thinking thought this endeavor was OK? Which professor for goodness overseeing your project allowed this to happen?

I know these days in the United States that college students have been wrapped in continuing wool and have the thought processes of 13 year olds. But I digress. The children obviously need better adult supervision.

By the way. Did you take out insurance to cover the cost of damaging another vessel? Probably not.

Now you and others may think I'm being harsh. Even somewhat pedantic, bringing up navigation law etc. Well ill tell you why I have written what I have.

Sailors need to feel safe as they navigate oceans. There are enough issues in cross ocean sailing such as weather, seas and other manned vessels.

We already have enough to worry about with unsafe cargo ships loosing containers over the side without having to now worry about unmanned drone sail boats launched by a bunch of non thinking child students.

Sure you students may get careers out of this. Some may even be tempted to go off and do a startup around drone vessels. But I will tell you this, I will fight this as much as I can.

As with airborne drones. First started by hobiests. Then picked up by the airforce. Now you have police forces and peeping toms using these to push the edge of privacy and public survalience. Yes aerial drones are great for taking videos but there is a social downside.

Sailing drones pose an existential threat to navigation. With the possible future of civil and military sea going drones crowding the waters.

Sorry, but I do not support at all what you have done. And I'm an electronics geek who makes very advanced electronic devices.

Have a nice day.

Chaya
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