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Old 31-08-2016, 11:02   #16
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

This could have been a worthwhile, profitable venture if done properly. Now it is simply a hazard to navigation despite it just being a paddle board with a sail. My objection is with low IQ university system allowing such irresponsible behavior.
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:15   #17
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

In case some thought my earlier posting was over the top or paranoid read this article that was published today concerning Roll-Royce push for drone ships.

The US NAVY has already deployed drone sub craft and their latest is a half submerged long range and large drone vessel.

Today in the Wall Street Journal.

Ship Operators Explore Autonomous Sailing - WSJ


British engine maker Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC is leading the Advanced Autonomous Waterborne Applications initiative involving other companies and universities. It foresees technologies long used to improve commercial airline operations migrating to ships. The group also is tapping know-how from those working on driverless cars to adapt for safe at-sea autonomous operations.

A future unmanned ship could resemble some of the most advanced combat drones. It would sport infrared detectors, high-resolution cameras and laser sensors to monitor its surroundings. The vast troves of data would be transmitted to command centers where staff do little more than monitor progress and ensure ships are operating at optimum speeds.

The consortium completed a study this year that concluded such vessels are feasible and offer savings.

Oskar Levander, vice president for innovation at Rolls-Royce’s marine unit, said moving toward greater autonomy and unmanned shipping could cut transport costs 22%. The bulk would come from lower staff costs, though such vessels also would be more fuel efficient by eliminating the need to carry equipment to support people onboard.

The first steps already are being taken. The Stella ferry, used in the Baltic and operated by Finferries, has been equipped with a variety of sensors including lasers and thermal cameras to assess whether such sensors could allow autonomous operations.

A critical step toward floating remotely controlled unmanned cargo ships on the oceans by 2030, and autonomous ones by 2035, is the ability to pass large amounts of data from ship to shore to ensure safe operations. For years, lack of affordable bandwidth has made that a challenge. A new generation of communications satellites is promising lower costs to transfer data.

Satellite-services company Inmarsat PLC this year launched its Fleet Xpress service to provide improved connectivity to ship operators. It combines high-bandwidth satellites with a more secure connection to guarantee vital safety connectivity. Ronald Spithout, president of Inmarsat’s maritime business, said the connection will let operators monitor engine and other ship functions more closely to enable enhanced automation.

Rolls-Royce, no longer affiliated with the luxury car maker, is betting that a push to smarter vessels will lift the fortunes of its struggling marine business. The prolonged slump in crude prices has led to a sharp drop in demand for sophisticated offshore vessels. Marine sales at Rolls-Royce fell 23% last year after declining 16% the prior year when oil prices started to slump.

Oil prices may rebound, but the demand for the gold-plated vessels used to service oil and gas rigs far offshore may never fully recover, said Mikael Makinen, president of Rolls-Royce’s marine division. Rolls-Royce is betting smart ships will be a new growth market.

The company is already in talks with operators it wouldn’t name to start trials of more autonomous vessels.


Automating shipping faces barriers, though. “There are a vast range of safety, security, navigational and legal challenges to be solved before crewless container vessels can be considered in our fleet,” said Maersk’s Mr. Laursen.

The International Maritime Organization, the arm of the United Nations overseeing global shipping, prohibits ship operations without crew. The International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, known as Solas, requires all ships to be “sufficiently and efficiently manned,” the IMO said.

Safety rules emerged in 1914 in the wake of the sinking of the RMS Titanic two years earlier, which killed more than 1,500 passengers on the ship’s maiden trans-Atlantic voyage. Current rules, completed in 1974, have been adapted for new technologies such as introducing mandatory requirements for electronic charts and automatic identification systems for ships. Proponents of greater autonomy hope the rules may be further relaxed.

Separately, it is unclear as of yet how security issues like piracy and the mandate to help distressed ships will be addressed for these ships

IMO spokeswoman Natasha Brown said the British government-sponsored Marine Autonomous Systems Regulatory Working Group, set up in 2014, is reviewing pertinent regulations to potentially propose changes.

James Fanshawe, chairman of the working group, said it hopes to convince the international organization to pave the way for autonomous vessels before the end of the decade.
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:29   #18
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Some of the responses here are hilarious and make it sound like the project is a homing autonomous torpedo, thirsting for human blood.

It's a great project to help expand knowledge of solar power and robotics/AI, get students interested and hopefully lead one day to better/cheaper autonomous scientific and survey vessels (even if it isn't generating profit, which seems to offend some people here).

As mentioned, it's a surfboard with some cool stuff attached and has an automatic collision avoidance AI which combined with the infrared cameras and AIS receivers probably means it's a lot safer than a single-hander (of which I am one).
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:36   #19
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

It has AIS and is programmed to avoid collisions so I say sail on and enjoy your Microtansat Challenge.

Now for the mostly submerged shipping container I missed by about 9 feet doing 8.5 knots about 7 miles out of NY Harbor . . . .
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:39   #20
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Off topic. Think of the effects of autonomous vehicles will have on all industries. No need for drivers, pilots, sea captains etc. Imagine insurance will offer better rates for non-driver vehicles or make it odious to not have the capability to go autonomous. Large swaths of ocean, airspace, and roadways gobbled up for autonomous vehicles only. Will this be pushed in pursuance of "safety", who knows. If science fiction is a guide to the future this does not look good.
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:40   #21
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Sheesh, It's amazing how many A-holes pop up with their opinions on this site. It's gotten so that you can hardly use the site as it was intended any longer. The post is someone asking for a hand with towing the craft back, not your stupid paranoid self important opinions.

Silence is better than bull$#!t
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:44   #22
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish View Post
Off topic. Think of the effects of autonomous vehicles will have on all industries. No need for drivers, pilots, sea captains etc. Imagine insurance will offer better rates for non-driver vehicles or make it odious to not have the capability to go autonomous. Large swaths of ocean, airspace, and roadways gobbled up for autonomous vehicles only. Will this be pushed in pursuance of "safety", who knows. If science fiction is a guide to the future this does not look good.

There may be a reduction in the amount of certified bridge crew - unlikely to lead to the elimination of captains as the harsh reality is that all large ships at sea are basically constantly fighting a battle of decay and the crew is constantly maintaining the ship so it doesn't fall apart before their annual contracts are up. Ships in drydocks don't make money - cheaper to keep it at sea and being maintained while underway.
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:50   #23
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
In case some thought my earlier posting was over the top or paranoid read this article that was published today concerning Roll-Royce push for drone ships.

The US NAVY has already deployed drone sub craft and their latest is a half submerged long range and large drone vessel.

Today in the Wall Street Journal.

Ship Operators Explore Autonomous Sailing - WSJ


British engine maker Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC is leading the Advanced Autonomous Waterborne Applications initiative involving other companies and universities. It foresees technologies long used to improve commercial airline operations migrating to ships. The group also is tapping know-how from those working on driverless cars to adapt for safe at-sea autonomous operations.

A future unmanned ship could resemble some of the most advanced combat drones. It would sport infrared detectors, high-resolution cameras and laser sensors to monitor its surroundings. The vast troves of data would be transmitted to command centers where staff do little more than monitor progress and ensure ships are operating at optimum speeds.

The consortium completed a study this year that concluded such vessels are feasible and offer savings.

Oskar Levander, vice president for innovation at Rolls-Royce’s marine unit, said moving toward greater autonomy and unmanned shipping could cut transport costs 22%. The bulk would come from lower staff costs, though such vessels also would be more fuel efficient by eliminating the need to carry equipment to support people onboard.

The first steps already are being taken. The Stella ferry, used in the Baltic and operated by Finferries, has been equipped with a variety of sensors including lasers and thermal cameras to assess whether such sensors could allow autonomous operations.

A critical step toward floating remotely controlled unmanned cargo ships on the oceans by 2030, and autonomous ones by 2035, is the ability to pass large amounts of data from ship to shore to ensure safe operations. For years, lack of affordable bandwidth has made that a challenge. A new generation of communications satellites is promising lower costs to transfer data.

Satellite-services company Inmarsat PLC this year launched its Fleet Xpress service to provide improved connectivity to ship operators. It combines high-bandwidth satellites with a more secure connection to guarantee vital safety connectivity. Ronald Spithout, president of Inmarsat’s maritime business, said the connection will let operators monitor engine and other ship functions more closely to enable enhanced automation.

Rolls-Royce, no longer affiliated with the luxury car maker, is betting that a push to smarter vessels will lift the fortunes of its struggling marine business. The prolonged slump in crude prices has led to a sharp drop in demand for sophisticated offshore vessels. Marine sales at Rolls-Royce fell 23% last year after declining 16% the prior year when oil prices started to slump.

Oil prices may rebound, but the demand for the gold-plated vessels used to service oil and gas rigs far offshore may never fully recover, said Mikael Makinen, president of Rolls-Royce’s marine division. Rolls-Royce is betting smart ships will be a new growth market.

The company is already in talks with operators it wouldn’t name to start trials of more autonomous vessels.


Automating shipping faces barriers, though. “There are a vast range of safety, security, navigational and legal challenges to be solved before crewless container vessels can be considered in our fleet,” said Maersk’s Mr. Laursen.

The International Maritime Organization, the arm of the United Nations overseeing global shipping, prohibits ship operations without crew. The International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, known as Solas, requires all ships to be “sufficiently and efficiently manned,” the IMO said.

Safety rules emerged in 1914 in the wake of the sinking of the RMS Titanic two years earlier, which killed more than 1,500 passengers on the ship’s maiden trans-Atlantic voyage. Current rules, completed in 1974, have been adapted for new technologies such as introducing mandatory requirements for electronic charts and automatic identification systems for ships. Proponents of greater autonomy hope the rules may be further relaxed.

Separately, it is unclear as of yet how security issues like piracy and the mandate to help distressed ships will be addressed for these ships

IMO spokeswoman Natasha Brown said the British government-sponsored Marine Autonomous Systems Regulatory Working Group, set up in 2014, is reviewing pertinent regulations to potentially propose changes.

James Fanshawe, chairman of the working group, said it hopes to convince the international organization to pave the way for autonomous vessels before the end of the decade.


Yes, robots are going to be a part of our future, commercial forces will certainly make that the case, and make it happen faster than most of us are comfortable with. Likely well before the technology is actually ready. Be mad about that, not at the academic institutions trying to improve the technology.
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:51   #24
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by alctel View Post

It's a great project to help expand knowledge of solar power and robotics/AI, get students interested and hopefully lead one day to better/cheaper autonomous scientific and survey vessels (even if it isn't generating profit, which seems to offend some people here).
Your contention that some posters here are against making money. What utter nonsense. None of my concerns were regarding making money. You have not dealt with, insurance, regulations, existing laws. I don't care how many laser sensors you have onboard. I don't care if you now dress it up as a project that can lead to research vessels and other "socially conscious endeavours.

Rolls Royse with far more money invested in drone ships than your University admits drone ships do not comply with current laws. Those laws are there for a good reason.

I can see a whole new piracy industry built around fouling these drone ships props and then boarding, disconnecting power for signalling than loot and pillage at will.

My central objection about the University project itself and the broader concept of drone ships has not been dealt with. Namely safe navigation.

After the court rooms end up killing drone cars following the first wave of wrongful death law suits I hope the same will occur for drone ships. Not all that we can think up is of itself a good idea or socially responsible.
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Old 31-08-2016, 11:57   #25
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Just my wild ass guess, but I would think as with any autonomous vehicle, there is significant effort in code and hardware to avoid collision. May only include AIS, as optical or radar might be more difficult in a vessel this size.
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:01   #26
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Why not ask the university to employ their retrieval strategy, Oh, they don't have one? Maybe a kind yach person will pony up and remove this valued equipment to a more suitable location. Boat, surfboard, fishing gear, whatever, we are all expected to clean up after ourselves.
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:04   #27
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Put up the good fight. This is dangerous and reckless.
Let's just hope that their contraption will cross the path of one of the many ghost ships drifting the North Atlantic: A couple of canon shots will remove that navigational hasard
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:07   #28
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

While we are talking about hazards to shipping maybe we should be looking at using technology to fight the scourge of shipping container sea dumping.

Perhaps the international boating community could start pushing for AIS type devices on all deck stored containers.

Miniature signalling devices that give a warning to a nearby vessel say a mile or two off.

Another idea could be passive radar deflectors on all four corners of containers. This will enhance the ability of vessels to use their radar at the very least to pick up the half submerged obstructions.

Perhaps even the insurance industry could be co-opted to help lobby for technology safety innovation in this area.
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:14   #29
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Just my wild ass guess, but I would think as with any autonomous vehicle, there is significant effort in code and hardware to avoid collision. May only include AIS, as optical or radar might be more difficult in a vessel this size.
Are you aware of the death of a Tesla driver who was using the cars auto navigation system. Other autonomous related deaths have been recorded.
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Old 31-08-2016, 12:18   #30
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
While we are talking about hazards to shipping maybe we should be looking at using technology to fight the scourge of shipping container sea dumping.

Perhaps the international boating community could start pushing for AIS type devices on all deck stored containers.

Miniature signalling devices that give a warning to a nearby vessel say a mile or two off.

Another idea could be passive radar deflectors on all four corners of containers. This will enhance the ability of vessels to use their radar at the very least to pick up the half submerged obstructions.

Perhaps even the insurance industry could be co-opted to help lobby for technology safety innovation in this area.
Unfortunately the ideas you're suggesting are simply not going to happen. Shipping containers are not going to be retrofitted like that - the industry doesn't like losing containers either, so it is going to invest in better weighing and securing standards. The fail-safe is to also develop container designs that encourage the cargo to quickly absorb water and sink.
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