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Old 17-09-2016, 23:38   #181
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Sailboter, thanks for the posts so far. It is reassuring to learn of the energy absorbing bow, for with that feature, it is unlikely to damage another vessel even if it T-boned it at max speed (assuming the previously quoted 12 knots is ball park correct).

But I can't see why you could not have used a tricolor type running light rather than a blinking white. That would give an encountering watchkeeper a bit more data to help him avoid collision, and would even follow COLREGS. I'd sure recommend such for any future builds, and the energy debit is pretty small with LED lamps. This would help avoid adverse reactions such as those posted in the early days of this thread and to actually help avoid being run down at sea in the night.

I await any further details you might post.

Jim
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Old 17-09-2016, 23:55   #182
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

For anyone interested in potentially rescuing Ada, we have prepared a rescue package that includes information on things like lifting, towing, quickly getting the rig off, and removing the keel if necessary. I'd be happy to pass that package on to anyone interested, but I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to post a lot of documents here.

For potential rescuers on this site, towing would probably be the only realistic option. Ada has a towing eye built into the top of her bow just behind the point were the black section meets the white. The inside diameter of that eye is a little more than 20 mm (7/8").

Because she is so light with a narrow hull and relatively clean lines, Ada tows easily. (At least assuming she is intact and relatively weed free still.) She does have a tendency to wander, though, so she would probably need a small sea anchor strung from her sheet post near the stern.

We fully realize that there is risk involved in trying to tow Ada, and particularly in trying to hook up a tow on the high seas. I agree that that would be difficult with any significant wind or seas running, and probably an ill-advised undertaking for a single-hander. If someone were to come across Ada and judge that a rescue was too risky, we would completely understand that position.

More than anything else, we would really like to figure out what went wrong. I would give a lot to have just 15 minutes with Ada right now, to try to determine the cause particularly of her rudder system failure. Any pictures or observations a sailor made of Ada right now would be extremely valuable to us.

The best way to contact us is probably by e-mail:
captain<at>ubcsailbot<dot>org

Thank you for the interest and attention Ada has received on this forum.
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Old 18-09-2016, 01:08   #183
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by young at hart View Post
Hello!
Thank you for posting the info. Extremely interesting project, on behalf of the CF community I would like to apologize for some of the dimwitted, nasty, simple-minded comments that some posted. You ever see an old man yell at a young child whilst shaking his fist? "You damn kids get off my lawn!" Ha, ha yep they are online now. (Rummy's and all sorts of tin foil hat wearing individuals) Regardless, best of luck with the project...it's innovative individuals like yourself who truly change the world, one experiment at a time. Best wishes
Really? Your first post here is an apology on behalf of CF and an insult to long-time posters? That's some hubris right there.
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Old 18-09-2016, 01:11   #184
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by young at hart View Post
Hello!
Thank you for posting the info. Extremely interesting project, on behalf of the CF community I would like to apologize for some of the dimwitted, nasty, simple-minded comments that some posted. You ever see an old man yell at a young child whilst shaking his fist? "You damn kids get off my lawn!" Ha, ha yep they are online now. (Rummy's and all sorts of tin foil hat wearing individuals) Regardless, best of luck with the project...it's innovative individuals like yourself who truly change the world, one experiment at a time. Best wishes

Welcome to cf.
But one post hardly justifies you to comment on behalf of the community....
Btw name calling on your first post hardly establishes any repoire

To sailbotter. it was due time someone with your associated experience with Ada has chimed in. Thank you.
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Old 18-09-2016, 01:14   #185
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ada actually sailed typically at about 6 knots, as you'd expect for a fast boat her size. She occasionally got up to 7 or even 8 knots a couple of times. The 12.5 knot event was very unusual. That occurred in the last report before Ada lost control of her rudder. Our best guess is that she was surfing down a very large wave. She may have broached, or perhaps the wave broke on her, damaging her rudder mechanism. Just a guess.

In terms of our decision with regards to her light, Ada's power budget really had to be very restrictive. I'm not sure those developing the COLREGS ever envisioned an unmanned, unpowered vessel of Ada's size. As you will know, Section 25 talks about lights for sailing vessels. We thought paragraph (d) was the most applicable to Ada:

"A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres (23.0 ft) in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision."

Ada was designed to avoid ever coming within sight of other vessels if possible through AIS. Considering the low likelihood of Ada ever getting within sight of a boat at night in the north Atlantic without AIS, we thought the best use of our power budget was on the brightest, most noticeable light we could afford. We decided that was a flashing white.

I agree that there could be room for disagreement with our interpretation of the COLREGS, and with our choice of light. I will certainly pass on the viewpoints expressed here for consideration by future sailbot designers.
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Old 18-09-2016, 03:26   #186
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Sailbotter, and young at hart.

Thanks for sharing that informative & interesting information.

https://track.ubctransat.com/
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Old 18-09-2016, 03:27   #187
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Hello everyone, When I started this post, My only intention was to try and support an educational research project. Because supporting education of young persons is fundamentally something I am very committed to. I never considered the possibility that it would go to 186 posts and 13 pages. I also never anticipated the degree of controversy it could stir up in the minds of the members. I have noted that many of those comments have been very reasonably expressed: while others perhaps not quite so much: As people bitching at other people is not as constructive and rational argument of A succinct point of view.

Least it gets forgotten over the length of it. I reiterate that in a previous post I explained that I was NOT part of the project. I did how ever make several telephone calls to Mr. David Tiessen; who though he was My only point of contact, Is also a graduate of the university and is not the person currently in charge of the project. I however felt sure that he knew who was so in my last telephone call I left a message indirectly asking for backup. So while the true Identity of 'sailbotter' may remain for ever anonymous: I am very pleased to see that the help I asked for has finally been provided.
Thus I hope that this has answered members questions and perhaps alleviated some concerns.

In one of the previous telephone calls I advised how this was playing out and was assured that message would be passed on & that it would be reviewed for further consideration. way back near the beginning when the subject of navigation lights was raised, My thoughts drifted off to the documentary of the dramatic Apollo 13 mission to the moon when on the rescue trip back they worked so hard to calculate the minimal availability of electrical power. When a few amps to much draw would make the difference between life and death. I pondered just how many solar panels could be fitted onto a 5.5 metre model boat? So the budget for navigation lights would not have been anything to do with what they cost at the yacht chandlers, & everything to do with the electrical power they would sap that was needed for other things. I still think this was a brilliant project, and no doubt a learning curve experience for all those involved. Which no doubt be could be improved so I would be very happy to hear about a recovery for all the additional information and analysis it would provide to those involved.
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Old 18-09-2016, 05:05   #188
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by young at hart View Post
Hello!
Thank you for posting the info. Extremely interesting project, on behalf of the CF community I would like to apologize for some of the dimwitted, nasty, simple-minded comments that some posted. You ever see an old man yell at a young child whilst shaking his fist? "You damn kids get off my lawn!" Ha, ha yep they are online now. (Rummy's and all sorts of tin foil hat wearing individuals) Regardless, best of luck with the project...it's innovative individuals like yourself who truly change the world, one experiment at a time. Best wishes
Apparently anyone who disagrees with young at hart is not only dim witted but also nasty and simple minded. A triple whammy no less.

Nice.
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Old 18-09-2016, 15:24   #189
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailbotter View Post
Hi Jim,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ada actually sailed typically at about 6 knots, as you'd expect for a fast boat her size. She occasionally got up to 7 or even 8 knots a couple of times. The 12.5 knot event was very unusual. That occurred in the last report before Ada lost control of her rudder. Our best guess is that she was surfing down a very large wave. She may have broached, or perhaps the wave broke on her, damaging her rudder mechanism. Just a guess.

In terms of our decision with regards to her light, Ada's power budget really had to be very restrictive. I'm not sure those developing the COLREGS ever envisioned an unmanned, unpowered vessel of Ada's size. As you will know, Section 25 talks about lights for sailing vessels. We thought paragraph (d) was the most applicable to Ada:

"A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres (23.0 ft) in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision."

Ada was designed to avoid ever coming within sight of other vessels if possible through AIS. Considering the low likelihood of Ada ever getting within sight of a boat at night in the north Atlantic without AIS, we thought the best use of our power budget was on the brightest, most noticeable light we could afford. We decided that was a flashing white.

I agree that there could be room for disagreement with our interpretation of the COLREGS, and with our choice of light. I will certainly pass on the viewpoints expressed here for consideration by future sailbot designers.
Thanks for the response, Sailbotter. A few other thoughts about the nav light situation:

First, if you do exhibit a white all-round light as specified, IMO it would be better to have it continuous rather than blinking, for then it would appear to another vessel as a stern light which obligates an overtaking vessel to stay clear. As far as I know, there is no specific COLREGS application of a blinking white on a vessel. One sometimes encounters fishing equipment with such lights, and of course nav aids, and a rational skipper will avoid such. I wonder if there is not some chance that it would be confused with a strobe, a device sometimes used to attract a vessel to the aid of someone in distress, or in a liferaft... just the opposite reaction that you intend!

Unless the blink rate is pretty infrequent, the energy saving by blinking seems pretty small for an LED, and thus why not use the LED tricolor? It would seem not to be much different than the white lamp.

None of this is relevant to the recovery of Ada, she is as she is, and I hope that in time she is recovered. I hope that in any future builds these factors are considered.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 18-09-2016, 23:36   #190
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

I'd like to add my words to Jim's for the second time, today.

Sailbotter, thank you for sharing with us the thoughts behind the build decisions. It's fun to read about it.

Coastal Explorer, actually, i think it is a good thing that you started this thread. It would be lovely if ADA is rescued as she approaches the Azores. So, thank you for your participation, as well.

Finally, if there is no more power draw to a tricolor than to the white flasher if LED lights are used, that might, indeed, be a real answer for the sailors here who would like to avoid the object at night.

Thank you again, an interesting thread, once the dust settled.

Ann
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Old 19-09-2016, 00:56   #191
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Its incredible how some people cannot get matters into perspective. Several people are getting their fangs into this - why? Because they can understand small matters. The more serious issues, like shipping containers are just too big for some people to get their minds around - so rather concentrate their self righteous behaviour on matters like this where they can attempt to belittle and to victimise. Sad.

The students are attempting to take knowledge forward. The containers (etc) are simply commercial - and people could do far more to contribute their energies in that direction rather than being rude about specific individuals.

I can see some rather sad accusations on this forum - if it make those posters feel happy to point fingers at others and call them names then their own posts says rather a lot about themselves.

I then read that these same individuals try and broaden the arguement by bringing in other elements to attempt go justify their position.

It is aparent that some people prefer to make posts from a position of just wishing to argue and not make meaningful contributions - far easier to post crude statements and to call those with alternative opinions names.

From my own perspective, despite the afforts of the detractors, I still support pushing forward science. I have never supported pollution despite some stating otherwise.

This particular thread does rather display just how challenged some individuals are.
Now those same characters can really throw their toys around and go incandescent with rage that someone can actually challenge them.
My goodness - how can someone do that? How dare they? Lets quickly write back and call them more names and bring in even more beyond the thread irrelevant information for support. Lets attack Bulawayo for daring to question. Off you go...........
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Old 19-09-2016, 01:47   #192
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailbotter View Post
Hi Jim,


I agree that there could be room for disagreement with our interpretation of the COLREGS, and with our choice of light. I will certainly pass on the viewpoints expressed here for consideration by future sailbot designers.
Hey Sailbotter, by the sounds of things ADA is headed for land and you will get her back. The best of luck for her timely return and I hope that what you have embarked on, may show up some innovative information to benefit all in and on and around our oceans. I can only imagine what may show but I know in NZ our conservation people and rescue people as well as other students will be fascinated.
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Old 29-10-2016, 18:09   #193
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Re: Is anyone crossing the Atlantic heading west? Can anyone rescue ADA

Sailbot is now 150km from Azores. Anyone out there able to lend a hand picking her up?

Thanks.

https://www.facebook.com/ubcsailbot/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

UPDATE: Ada is 154 km from So Miguel, Azores Islands. We are looking for anyone in the Azores with access to a tug boat who could help rescue her.
The westward winds will be calm the next 8 hours, and then they will pull her south away from the Azores the next 5 days, fast
She has traveled over 6,321 km to get this far and she doesn't have control of herself anymore - she is at the mercy of the wind and the waves. Please contact us at captain@ubcsailbot.org if you could help in any way







Thanks
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