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Old 24-12-2012, 20:35   #91
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Why would you give away secrets, weaknesses, opinions and dissent to the enemy?
I think more than anything, the above is being given away to other boaters/cruisers who want to better secure their boats.

While it's possible, I doubt there are many here lurking just to find someone has weak security hoping to pillage their boat. Not to mention the odds of the seeing information that would help and then also seeing that same boat in the location they are in is even smaller.

As someone who is planning to cruise in the future, I'm all for seeing more info on how to better secure the boat.

Thanks Mark - Love your Method!
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Old 24-12-2012, 20:59   #92
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Mark's Gate is a great idea, but it is not what I am talking about


There are more subtle ways to do your research on real security options

Would you go on the internet to discuss the best ‘password’ to use? Or where to keep a safe in your house?

The enemy are just as smart as us, watching and studying trends for opportunistic attacks….
Think of the basic catalyst of ‘Fear’ in any horror movie…. It is the fear of the unknown!!

Publically talking up or down Guns/Security takes that advantage away. That is all (and the last) I am saying about this.

best of luck to the guy in St Lucia
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Old 24-12-2012, 23:10   #93
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Basically.. it's better to be judged by 12, than to be carried by 6.
The only folks who believe this are folks who are unfamiliar with life in a supermax.

The only way it's true is if the 12 come back with "not guilty". (Which is, by the way, not the same as "innocent".)

Under many circumstances, I'll take the 6, and the day my appeals run out will be my last day alive.
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Old 25-12-2012, 00:13   #94
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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As someone who is planning to cruise in the future, I'm all for seeing more info on how to better secure the boat.
How Do You Store Your Jewelry ?

Also you can search “Jewellery” and you will know what not to do.
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Old 25-12-2012, 00:48   #95
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

This is a Cruisers Forum and i think some members should take note that their comments are read by all kinds of interested persons at various CRUISERS destinations around the world.

It's not helpful for Cruisers to have these 'Gung-Ho' attitudes in the public domain, so many of these dumb 'i woulds' and 'you should' aggressive comments build an undeserved profile to people visiting foreign ports. This profile that others build can cause much suspicion on innocent parties.

It would be more helpful for some to remember their comments are in a public domain/out there....

When in a foreign country you are under their laws it doesn't matter who you think you are or where your from. This instance of detainment may be the result of a mortal wound inflicted by the yachtie or something entirely obtuse we simple do not know.

Someone is dead and someone caused it the rest is subject to court, the best we can do is observe and hope for fair justice whichever way that leads...
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Old 25-12-2012, 04:08   #96
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Deaths in foreign countries where a visitor is involved is treated differently/cautiously by the local police.

My father years ago, was doing contract work in China and my mother flew out of Toronto to visit him. Her first night there she had a stroke and died in bed. Cops treated him like a murder suspect until the autopsy proved the cause of her death. He wasn't imprisoned or anything, just had a police escort for a few days.

The Canadian Consulate there had employed a local to help my dad through the burocracy(sp?). Things went as smooth as expected under the circumstances.
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Old 25-12-2012, 05:30   #97
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Reading this thread, laying at anchor off a tropical island in the Caribbean on Christmas morning, it occurs to me that even my peers (or is it just the armchair "Sailors"?) do not believe I have the duty to my ship to defend her and her crew...

It is a strange world, this current "enlightened" ethos has created. I suppose the locals are to come aboard, take what they want (including doing as they please with female crew members?) and I am to consent to this?

May it never be that I have to, but I shall never concent to such a thing. IMHO no one worthy of the title "Captain" ever would.
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Old 25-12-2012, 06:11   #98
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pirate Re: In Prison in St Lucia

My view point is that folks are making a storm in a tea cup after a fashion...
if he'd killed a mugger in self defence on the streets of London he'd likely be in jail as well pending manslaughter charges... law often is a slow and ponderous thing.
The trouble with the talk of aggression with guns etc... it just serves to jack up the threat... poor or desperate folk take the potential risks into consideration and jack up their own aggressivness to meet the challange..
another thing is blathering on about hidden safes etc does no good at all... just increases the chance of some one being beaten to death in an attempt to get the location of the safe...
Me... never had a safe and never will... everything I own can be replaced.. all be it with greater difficulty being an ole buga... except my life.
Yes I'll fight... even kill.... as a last resort... to date I've never had to in these circumstances... but I do see it as a possiblity.... because some moron has bragged about his safe the 3rd world thinks all sailboats come fitted with a safe full of cash/jewels and other goodies..
But none of my life experiences have convinced me to live in paranoia with guns, locks and electric fencing etc...
Europe/Carib/S.Pacific is all the same... if its cold the hatches are closed but never locked (its nice to get on deck fast if needed) and when warm they're open...
People have given away the City Centres to trash because they'd rather hide behind locked doors in the suburbs...
I go where and when I choose and I'm damned if some white/yellow/black/brown a$$*ole is going to make me change the way I live in/on MY little world.
And another thing... a friendly smile and handshake I've found is loads better than a gun as a deterrent...

Rant Over...
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Old 25-12-2012, 07:14   #99
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

I suspect that there must be more to this story than is in the press. If we are to understand the locals St. Lucia law is based on English common law which clearly distinguishes between the crimes of manslaughter and murder. It would seem at worst he might be charged with manslaughter given the reported circumstances. In the case of boatman's example if he killed the mugger as a direct action then he might be charged with manslaughter, but where does the victims responsibility for the safety of the mugger end? If the mugger decides he's he's not getting the best of the victim and runs away but subsequently falls and hits head and dies, is the victim still charged with manslaughter? If we might look at the example of Somali pirates. It is a common suggestion for commercial ships to repel borders with water canons. If one of those borders is a poor swimmer and falls into the water and drowns, is the captain and crew of the commercial ship now charged with murder? What if the boarding is successfully repeled but later the pirate vessel sinks in a storm at sea. Is the captain charged with murder because he didn't let his vessel be hijacked and allow the pirates refuge on a more seaworthy vessel? It just seems to me that there must be more to this story which I guess we won't learn of until the trial.
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Old 25-12-2012, 07:35   #100
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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In creating this thread I wished to give information to all boat-cruisers in the Caribbean (and other areas) on what can happen to any of us. The facts are relatively clear, and denied by nobody, including St Lucia officials we watched on TV news. As far as we know, there is no other version, except that Sommer is sued for murder. This circumnavigator was emprisoned after he was attacked on his boat and one thief died ashore after swimming from the attacked boat. He is in jail in reportedly unacceptable conditions, without a trial or a sustained accusation after 8 months.
The question is not to criticize or denigrate justice in this country. It is only to let know Eric Sommer, as well as local authorities, that he is not alone and that the cruisers' community is watching them and is very concerned about the incoming procedure. I think we would appreciate this in his situation.
I hope this thread will remain active and I'll give any new information I get from French or local sources. Thanks to all contributors.

Yes & thank you for your information.

This is obviously a sensitive event & has good arguments all around.

May I make a recommendation, start a new thread titled "ST. Lucia prison topic, info only", or something to that effect. That way we can follow without getting sidetrak-ed. Also add in the body, "this thread is for specific info only, no side comments" or words to that effect.
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Old 25-12-2012, 07:47   #101
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pirate Re: In Prison in St Lucia

LMAO.... point taken...
Consider it zipped....
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Old 25-12-2012, 08:10   #102
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Are there folks that think if they wake up at 3 in the mourning and a man is standing in there boat with your tv in his arms and a knife is sticking out of his back pocket that you have the right to kill him? I belive someone else has already said"It is against the law to shoot people"..Now if this thug drops the TV and grabs the knife I think you are allowed to "Protect yourself" if you fear for your life...In some places you are still going to be arrested until Juris Prudence runs its course..
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Old 25-12-2012, 08:33   #103
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Are there folks that think if they wake up at 3 in the mourning and a man is standing in there boat with your tv in his arms and a knife is sticking out of his back pocket that you have the right to kill him?

Yes, no hesitation or guilt. The TV and the thief's life is of no concern, only the safety of crew and self, in that order. You don't know what his intentions are.

If the thief was on deck and turned and ran away... that's a different situation altogether... he hasn't invaded our home. He would be chased and held, as my wife and I have done several times over the years. No armchair analysis here. Turn, run, hide, smile and shake his hand, cowar and beg or bargain for our lives... NEVER.
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Old 25-12-2012, 09:05   #104
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Having been boarded at 3 am by a thief that I confronted in the main cabin while my wife hid in the head, I can state unequivically that I had no concern for his motives. I naturally assumed after the effort he went through to get there that his motives were sinister and I was prepared to kill him to defend my crew.

The flood of adrenaline as you size up an opponent in the dark to determine if you can beat him to death with your own hands is not something I would like to repeat.

Luckily all it took was a brief confrontation to scare the guy off, so I feel for this sailor having been in a similar situation.

It took months before I could sleep comfortably again, but that night is always lingering in the back of my mind.

Later,
NJ
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Old 25-12-2012, 09:05   #105
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

It certainly seems like there should be more to this story than we know now, but maybe not. Has anyone heard the story about the marine that got arrested in Mexico for bringing a gun into the country. He was put in jail for a seemingly minor offence. The family then got on the ball and tried to get him out. His family was also told to go through the standard chanels, to keep this low key, to have the best chances for release. After a short and frustrating time, the family had enough and put it out to the press. I have to give the press credit on this one, they got on board and within a few days, the Marine was on his way home.

The Marine had a support system, in a family then the US press. If this guy's story is not more complicatedd then what has been reported, then I would hope that someone would be screeming from the hill tops to get me out.
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