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Old 03-04-2013, 07:11   #421
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I think the info that Gord provided suggests an autopsy was conducted - Multiple Blunt Force Traumas followed by drowning (not all drowning is immediate)....the link to Eric is both the short time between being dead and the altercation onboard and that Eric appears to have admitted at least throwing him overboard and reasonable to assume that involved at least some force.

Whilst of course these "facts" may not be true, if they are it suggests that at the least Eric has a case to answer if not actually being guilty (Manslaughter even if not Murder). Bottom line is that if you beat someone up and they "accidently" die then you get to suck up consequences of own actions.

Being stuck in prison for the thick end of a year awaiting trial is just how these things usually go, especially for those who genuinely are a flight risk (he would be an idiot not to f#ck off ASAP if he could!)............in St Lucia and elsewhere.

Whilst obviously not intended as a body dump (still moving not a good thing!) nonetheless a tad unlucky he made it to shore before dying - a couple of days of floating around would have been useful for Eric.
What would you have done after hearing noise on deck and finding someone on your boat? What do you suggest we should do? Seriously what are the options? Call police and wait? In St Lucia?

Or would you simply, like me, suggest to stay away from anchoring in St Lucia?

And I do not understand you can drown on land because you were swimming before? A stroke maybe or other cause brought on by the effort maybe, but
asphyxia?

Returning from dinner at Marigot Bay (St Lucia) some years ago, I had the displeasure of finding my boat ransacked by a thief. Immediately I went to the police station 50 meters away. The man in blue was watching TV and said come back in the morning and sign a form. Yeah, sure, cause if you move now you might catch the thief I thought and he might be your brother in law. He would not move or even look away from his TV.

Lucky I was away when the thief boarded my boat or I might still be in jail.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:24   #422
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And I do not understand you can drown on land because you were swimming before? A stroke maybe or other cause brought on by the effort maybe, but asphyxia?
Its called Secondary drowning and you don't have to be beaten before hand for it to happen... just need to take a little water down your windpipe for it to kick off the process... basically the lungs start producing fluids and you drown in your own goop...
And if you think your rant will deter EU cruisers from stopping there... Dream On...
Seems to me like the old Demon of the Caribbean St Martin is getting a break...
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:40   #423
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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What would you have done after hearing noise on deck and finding someone on your boat? What do you suggest we should do? Seriously what are the options? Call police and wait? In St Lucia?

Or would you simply, like me, suggest to stay away from anchoring in St Lucia?

And I do not understand you can drown on land because you were swimming before? A stroke maybe or other cause brought on by the effort maybe, but
asphyxia?

Returning from dinner at Marigot Bay (St Lucia) some years ago, I had the displeasure of finding my boat ransacked by a thief. Immediately I went to the police station 50 meters away. The man in blue was watching TV and said come back in the morning and sign a form. Yeah, sure, cause if you move now you might catch the thief I thought and he might be your brother in law. He would not move or even look away from his TV.

Lucky I was away when the thief boarded my boat or I might still be in jail.
We were in Marigot Bay last year. Land-based, but we spent most of the time around the water.

I saw that the local 'entrepreneurs' could be persistant and persuasive (like about all of the Caribbean), but polite refusal was sufficient to get the point across.

Have you ever had your house broken into in the US (or Canada)? You phone the cops, an officer will hopefully be there shortly just to have a looksee and be sure you're safe, and the investigative unit MIGHT be by the next business day to look for prints or other evidence. My point being that the Marigot Bay night shift isn't going to drop everything else to look for a long-gone thief or some rich yachtie's stuff. This is why there's insurance.

Quote:
What would you have done after hearing noise on deck and finding someone on your boat? What do you suggest we should do? Seriously what are the options?
Police the world over tell people NOT to resist or fight when being robbed, and to have sufficiently strong locks and doors to deter the casual thief when away. You can deter most by yelling, sounding an air-horn, blowing a whistle, shining some lights in their face. You hang a beating on an intruder and he dies... not the smartest thing to do in St Lucia, or most places.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:41   #424
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Its called Secondary drowning ...
Indeed.
And death can result as much as 72 hours after aspiration of water or other fluids.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:04   #425
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

boatman61 If you think St Martin is safer than St Lucia maybe you are right. Although with a murder rate of over 25 it is part of the most dangerous of countries. At least in St Martin or in Sint Maarten the police and justice are normal and will do their best to protect. Criminals abound though.

Thanks for the explanation on secondary drowning. I had never heard of this. It means no one acted to help when he came ashore.

What would you have done with someone uninvited, on deck on your boat?
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:05   #426
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Indeed.
And death can result as much as 72 hours after aspiration of water or other fluids.
And murder can be committed if the person dies up to one year after the injury.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:11   #427
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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What would you have done after hearing noise on deck and finding someone on your boat? What do you suggest we should do? Seriously what are the options? Call police and wait? In St Lucia?

SNIP
While I understand your point I am not sure it applies here.

We are not sure what the noise was or the purpose of the visit to the boat. I could see how the noise on deck could be along the lines of "what are you doing screwing my wife/girlfriend/woman I pimp for, you owe me $US1,000" which puts things in a much different light than a simple thief in the night who is a little clumsy.

I also would like to know more about the boat and the person on it who took the vic to the boat and then left knowing the vic would have to get to shore. Were the police able to get a statement from this boat person. It seems to me he would have at least some legal responsibility to assure safe passage for the vic from the boat back to shore. Not to mention he could provide details about why the vic wanted to go to the boat in the first place.

This incident seems to be far more than a simple robbery. If indeed it was a love triangle of some flavor, and that now seems to be the case the testimony of the woman and the boat person seem to be the key in assigning blame.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:13   #428
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Lake-Effect my account of a robbery in Marigot is more than 10 years old, the area has changed completely with the construction of the hotel marina complex.

So you advise us not to move and let the intruder enter the boat? I remind you the murder rate is 25 in St Lucia. This is almost 25 times that of Canada. Maybe you should jump overboard and swim ashore?
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:15   #429
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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SNIP

Police the world over tell people NOT to resist or fight when being robbed,

SNIP
The question is was this a robbery or something related to one man thinking his woman was with another man. If there is one thing LEOs hate it is getting involved in this type of domestic situation.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:18   #430
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

tomfl So what would you do and suggest we do with someone on deck? Write a Hollywood script?

You are anchored in Rodney Bay what do you do?
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:25   #431
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Has anyone ever experienced this? I have twice been boarded at night (Grenada). Both times I drove the thief (pirate) away. And I do not have a gun on board.

It is much easier to criticize Eric Sommer if you have never experienced a boarding.

BTW two ex-policemen I know got into fights with pirates.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:32   #432
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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So you advise us not to move and let the intruder enter the boat? I remind you the murder rate is 25 in St Lucia. This is almost 25 times that of Canada. Maybe you should jump overboard and swim ashore?
We won't resolve this by flinging hypotheticals at each other while sitting in front of our PCs. WHAT intruder? How many? Simple petty thief who can usually be scared off by your presence? Movie-grade baddie looking for de white wimmin?

A murder rate, whether for NYC or St Lucia, is mainly locals behaving badly toward each other. How many foreign tourists or cruisers are murdered per year? That's the stat that would matter to us.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:41   #433
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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What would you have done after hearing noise on deck and finding someone on your boat? What do you suggest we should do? Seriously what are the options? Call police and wait? In St Lucia?
I would figure if the lights going on and me telling him to f#ck off didn't work that he meant business. First step would be to hide! Down below behind a locked door .

If that didn't work (and he was breaking in) then I would treat it as serious. and one of us would not be drowning ashore - even at the price of quickly relocating to another island "paradise". or continent - may even drop him ashore at the new destination to puzzle out how to get home , or close to. ish .

If it was a domestic or an angry pimp then likely she would be stuffed through a hatch - possibly with money attached......and next day I would also be off to pastures new.

One of the advantages a westerner has over an angry 3rd world local is the ability to cross borders .

Running away works .
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:44   #434
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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tomfl So what would you do and suggest we do with someone on deck? Write a Hollywood script?

You are anchored in Rodney Bay what do you do?
My point was that if you pick up a strange woman (or some woman you know has a husband/boyfriend/pimp) at a bar and take below deck on your boat and you then here someone on deck who is screaming about "screwing his wife" the situation is different than a simple thief in the night.

As for the Hollywood script conventional advice for having sex is "get a room". All this could have been avoided by taking the woman to a hotel instead of the boat. On the other hand since I have a cat with a nice comfortable tramp between the bows maybe a bout of exhibitionism would be called for in a typical Hollywood script.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:51   #435
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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We won't resolve this by flinging hypotheticals at each other while sitting in front of our PCs. WHAT intruder? How many? Simple petty thief who can usually be scared off by your presence? Movie-grade baddie looking for de white wimmin?

A murder rate, whether for NYC or St Lucia, is mainly locals behaving badly toward each other. How many foreign tourists or cruisers are murdered per year? That's the stat that would matter to us.
I agree that the murder rate usually is mainly locals issues.
The only thing sure about when you have intruders in the Caribbean, whatever their number, is that their intentions are bad. They just want to rip you off. Most of the time of the robbery acts the owners are ashore, but in most of reported assault I read or heard about, the intruders had either guns, or blades. In a lot of cases the intruders had to swim ashore while getting pushed overboard or just diving because afraid.
In the worst case, in Venezuela, most of captains who tried to resist have been either killed or wounded.
One technique, which, I guess as the effect of a scarecrow... is to hang young children clothes around the boat. Another one, is, never let any boat boy, even friendly, come aboard...

Knowing all of this, and knowing that I have a hot latin temper and in many situations in the past I fought to protect friends or family.
Still, I don't know how I would act in the situation that intruders come to my boat....
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