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Old 29-03-2013, 14:19   #346
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Eric and, according to him, throws him into the water
Therein methinks lies the reason why Eric is in jail awaiting trial - he admitted throwing him into the water . If your action result in the death of someone you have to expect comeback (no matter whether that person was a saint or a sinner)....and at least the full process of the law (no matter how inefficient or inconveniant).

Personally as soon as da PoPo turned up I would have kept my mouth shut as them simply turning is a big red flag that something is very amiss following an altercation with a suspected thief as he would not normally be complaining to the police about a failed robbery!

I may have admitted shouting at the thief, but no more (certainly never touching someone, even slightly) and claim that he simply jumped overboard when I appeared on deck (whether into a boat or not I have no idea - same as no idea how he arrived) - and if a witness later appeared to contradict me I might have admitted standing near him, otherwise would have held my story on the basis that the witness likely an accomplice rather than the local Magistrate!

Upon further reflection, I would have added (if the subject of a physical altercation was raised) that I would obviously not have attacked the fella as I didn't know who he was or why he was onboard - for all I knew he could have fallen off another boat and had simply come aboard to save himself! - but he simply was not onboard long enough for me to find out that was not the case (albeit the fact he jumped overboard as soon as I appeared meant I could then discount that reason!).

I appreciate that in certain countries it is legal to kill people for looking at you funny whilst you are sitting on yer front porch at home, but most places don't consider that normal......and even where someone who was clearly in the wrong place accidently dies by your hand or actions it is never considered fair game (annoying as that may sometines be!).

The moral of the story is think ahead - and if in doubt admit nothing (even if da PoPo are being freindly!)......and if you don't like the rules and laws of Furriners, don't visit.
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Old 29-03-2013, 16:23   #347
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

David - good points.

I doubt if St Lucia has castle laws.
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Old 29-03-2013, 16:37   #348
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Therein methinks lies the reason why Eric is in jail awaiting trial - he admitted throwing him into the water . If your action result in the death of someone you have to expect comeback (no matter whether that person was a saint or a sinner)....and at least the full process of the law (no matter how inefficient or inconveniant).

Personally as soon as da PoPo turned up I would have kept my mouth shut as them simply turning is a big red flag that something is very amiss following an altercation with a suspected thief as he would not normally be complaining to the police about a failed robbery!

I may have admitted shouting at the thief, but no more (certainly never touching someone, even slightly) and claim that he simply jumped overboard when I appeared on deck (whether into a boat or not I have no idea - same as no idea how he arrived) - and if a witness later appeared to contradict me I might have admitted standing near him, otherwise would have held my story on the basis that the witness likely an accomplice rather than the local Magistrate!

Upon further reflection, I would have added (if the subject of a physical altercation was raised) that I would obviously not have attacked the fella as I didn't know who he was or why he was onboard - for all I knew he could have fallen off another boat and had simply come aboard to save himself! - but he simply was not onboard long enough for me to find out that was not the case (albeit the fact he jumped overboard as soon as I appeared meant I could then discount that reason!).

I appreciate that in certain countries it is legal to kill people for looking at you funny whilst you are sitting on yer front porch at home, but most places don't consider that normal......and even where someone who was clearly in the wrong place accidently dies by your hand or actions it is never considered fair game (annoying as that may sometines be!).

The moral of the story is think ahead - and if in doubt admit nothing (even if da PoPo are being freindly!)......and if you don't like the rules and laws of Furriners, don't visit.
Pretty good plan......in hind sight.

It seems a shame to me that the guy was just being honest.

"The best policy"

I guess not.
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Old 29-03-2013, 17:23   #349
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
....and if you don't like the rules and laws of Furriners, don't visit.



I think that's what this thread is all about, an attempt to inform cruisers about the actual practice of law in this particular locale (it ain't always as advertised), so that they can make a more informed decision as to whether or not they'd like to go there. I must say this incident doesn't improve my desire to go there. If they were smart they'd stop sitting on their hands and get to work on some justice instead of trying to squeeze the guy and his family for legal fees and multiple visits, this isn't going to do their tourism industry any good.
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Old 29-03-2013, 17:34   #350
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
[drift]
Actually you can delete "western" from that phrase.



[/drift]
More drift (and unimportant )

Aren't all this countries listed considered to be "western"?
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Old 29-03-2013, 18:05   #351
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
More drift (and unimportant )

Aren't all this countries listed considered to be "western"?



How did China stay off that list? The Chinese printers didn't put it on for fear of being jailed?
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Old 29-03-2013, 19:04   #352
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Pretty good plan......in hind sight.
Hindsight?

Nah, just that I have found in life a bit of foresight goes a long way........

..........and in this case he had a few hours at least to think through what could come down the pipe post dispute, albeit I would personally have been concentrating on the impact of a re-visit as not everyone takes a loss well and in some jurisdictions that can involve folks in uniform - both using their official capacity. and not, albeit my gut would say that someone who spent their nights getting feet wet not in a position to deploy the latter.

In this case it seems that things went pretty normally as they would in most jurisdictions playing by the rule of law - including the fact that if innocent getting caught up in events is inconveniant at best, albeit if his admission is true then innocent is not the correct term as most countries do not have castle laws, even if some have it in practice.
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Old 29-03-2013, 20:47   #353
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
How did China stay off that list? The Chinese printers didn't put it on for fear of being jailed?
List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China is ranked 123

123 China 121 or 170[2]
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Old 29-03-2013, 20:49   #354
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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More drift (and unimportant )

Aren't all this countries listed considered to be "western"?
Except for the first two?
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Old 29-03-2013, 23:15   #355
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Except for the first two?
Two??
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Old 30-03-2013, 07:24   #356
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Therein methinks lies the reason why Eric is in jail awaiting trial - he admitted throwing him into the water . If your action result in the death of someone you have to expect comeback (no matter whether that person was a saint or a sinner)....and at least the full process of the law (no matter how inefficient or inconveniant).

Personally as soon as da PoPo turned up I would have kept my mouth shut as them simply turning is a big red flag that something is very amiss following an altercation with a suspected thief as he would not normally be complaining to the police about a failed robbery!

I may have admitted shouting at the thief, but no more (certainly never touching someone, even slightly) and claim that he simply jumped overboard when I appeared on deck (whether into a boat or not I have no idea - same as no idea how he arrived) - and if a witness later appeared to contradict me I might have admitted standing near him, otherwise would have held my story on the basis that the witness likely an accomplice rather than the local Magistrate!

Upon further reflection, I would have added (if the subject of a physical altercation was raised) that I would obviously not have attacked the fella as I didn't know who he was or why he was onboard - for all I knew he could have fallen off another boat and had simply come aboard to save himself! - but he simply was not onboard long enough for me to find out that was not the case (albeit the fact he jumped overboard as soon as I appeared meant I could then discount that reason!).

I appreciate that in certain countries it is legal to kill people for looking at you funny whilst you are sitting on yer front porch at home, but most places don't consider that normal......and even where someone who was clearly in the wrong place accidently dies by your hand or actions it is never considered fair game (annoying as that may sometines be!).

The moral of the story is think ahead - and if in doubt admit nothing (even if da PoPo are being freindly!)......and if you don't like the rules and laws of Furriners, don't visit.
Excellent commentary on the situation.
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Old 30-03-2013, 22:02   #357
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
[drift]
Actually you can delete "western" from that phrase.



[/drift]
And this is bad because a lot of bad people are locked up, instead of out on the streets?
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Old 30-03-2013, 22:23   #358
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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And this is bad because a lot of bad people are locked up, instead of out on the streets?
In a punitive penal system, yes.
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Old 30-03-2013, 22:35   #359
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

There are at least three things that metric could measure.

It could mean we have the tightest law, the most active police or the most criminals.

These examples mean that that metric, taken by itself, is meaningless.
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Old 31-03-2013, 00:22   #360
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

There used to be a police and judicial culture, in a few third world (generally island) places trying to establish a tourist industry, where the last thing any enlightened and informed solo sailor would do, having been the prey of local criminals, would be to report it to the authorities.

Their natural reflex would be to throw the sailor in gaol indefinitely, in order to 'preserve their reputation' as a safe venue for tourists. In other words, not so much shoot the messenger, as simply put them beyond the reach of the western media.

That's hardly a viable tactic in the information age, but maybe cultures are slow to change? Especially bureaucratic ones...
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