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Old 27-01-2013, 06:51   #301
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by Moonpie View Post
Sure as hell is! What a shame.
It might be a shame, but that's how the world is. Deal with it or don't up to "you". Pretending or wishing it is otherwise simply gonna lead to a whole world of dissapointment.
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Old 27-01-2013, 08:36   #302
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

I knew there were more logical types on here that did not condemn based on visual perceptions or on some preconceived notion that a person acts based on how they "look". YAY !
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Old 27-01-2013, 09:16   #303
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pirate Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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I knew there were more logical types on here that did not condemn based on visual perceptions or on some preconceived notion that a person acts based on how they "look". YAY !
I think you should worry more about what the 'authorities' are like re visual perceptions etc than an internet forums wide range of opinions... this could be compared to an anchor thread...
Being as I don't fit the 'Norm' myself I have some sympathy for folk who dare to be different... we've all been programmed different ways 'TF'... but at the same time I am also aware that those of us who choose this lifestyle are living portions of it in dangerous places... ports always have been... and have thieves and saints both resident and transient...
From this outsiders view point its seems there's lots more to this than meets the eye... from both sides... this is a guy who can and would hang out in places many on here would never dare venture into... is it drugs... is it because he was bonking the wrong someones wife... was it over a debt... is it a fit up..?
Has an autopsy been done and made public..
All we really know is there was a fight of some kind and a death resulted...
One thing I do know is a bunch of 'outsiders' trying to stir things up and attempting to bring pressure will do the guy no favours at all... may even drag things out more.. the time for petitions etc is after... when the whole story is out and intelligent judgement can be applied..
Sorry..


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Old 27-01-2013, 09:20   #304
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A "fight" on board his boat with another human that snuck onto his boat w/o his permission! The rest of what you said was based on yours or somebody else's opinion. Makes my point, thanks.
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Old 27-01-2013, 09:30   #305
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

seems on this thread people are generally assuming the guy didn't do anything wrong

we still know nothing really, but I have this feeling that once the details are known things are going to change
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Old 27-01-2013, 09:40   #306
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Your probably right Don I just think it's kinda sad to read some of these posts.
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Old 27-01-2013, 09:42   #307
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pirate Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by weto View Post
A "fight" on board his boat with another human that snuck onto his boat w/o his permission! The rest of what you said was based on yours or somebody else's opinion. Makes my point, thanks.
Were you there...?
Or is this based on yours or somebody elses opinion...
As you say... 'Makes your point...'
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Old 27-01-2013, 10:05   #308
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

Hey Phil,
You get your "break" on Broadway,--not here. Sigh.
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Old 27-01-2013, 16:08   #309
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Originally Posted by weto View Post
A "fight" on board his boat with another human that snuck onto his boat w/o his permission! The rest of what you said was based on yours or somebody else's opinion. Makes my point, thanks.
Hmm... there is also a dead body in this story - kinda an important fact I would have thought or perhaps this is just another opinion

Phil's point is valid:
I think you should worry more about what the 'authorities' are like re visual perceptions .......... One thing I do know is a bunch of 'Honkies' trying to stir things up and attempting to bring pressure will do the guy no favours at all... may even drag things out more.. the time for petitions etc is after... when the whole story is out and intelligent judgement can be applied..
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Old 27-01-2013, 16:17   #310
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Your probably right Don I just think it's kinda sad to read some of these posts.
What you read as sad I read as realistic.....and also a cautionary tale.

IME (of being abroad and sometimes being the fella who "didn't do nothing wrong" ) some folks do think that being abroad is like being at home (except for funny lingo and food) and some even think that being a foreigner gives 'em a free pass. or a licence to stop thinking .

Nonetheless most seem to get away with that being zero problem (it's just a numbers game, most people yer meet won't be a great problem, at home or abroad - as long as you stay firmly on the sunny side of the street), but for those who luck out can be an eye opener and brings a whole new understanding of both being alone and up sh#t creek without a paddle.....for 99.99% of us no gunboat coming from home (or cavalry!), just warm words......of course "your" chances of problems worsen when you move out of the daylight and think you can outsmart, out shout? , out bully or even outgun da locals. They been there for a while longer, know more people and have picked up a few things along the way on how the game works. and usually sleep soundly at night no matter what. Happy Days .
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Old 27-01-2013, 16:35   #311
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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Your probably right Don I just think it's kinda sad to read some of these posts.
In general I've always found the posters to CF and the like to be fairly well informed, even though I don't always agree with them. If you really want to see "sad" go to something like CNN or some other news site and read some posting. They seem to have to qualms about posting on subject they know absolutely nothing about.
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Old 29-01-2013, 08:15   #312
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

A very interesting thread, It has caused quite a bit of discussion and serious thought here at home. While it mostly stayed on track it varied enough to cause me to stop and think about things I didnít even realize I needed to be thinking about.
I hope justice prevails with Captain Eric. I donít have all that much faith in the justice system at home let alone abroad. I recall when my brother found himself in need of an attorney, the man handed me one of his business cards. In bold letters across the top it said HOW MUCH JUSTICE CAN YOU AFFORD? *Tries not to look like some paranoid nutcase* I think there is no greater determining factor in any legal system around the world. Obviously with a man with a man dead there needs to be an investigation and in this case a grand jury indictment. I don't think anyone could argue that if the only ties a man has to a place where he is being investigated for a crime is his anchor, he has to be considered a flight risk. If this happened at our shore I would surely expect him to be held until he was finished with his trial. If it turns out he was innocent, I feel terribly for how he may be suffering, what might be the case of his boat and his friends. If on the other hand it is something differentÖ I may not look Rasta like Eric, but I am just an old hippie who never grew out of it. It would be foolish in the extreme if people who look as we do didnít expect to be looked at closer than the clean cut republican looking dude (no offense to those of the republican persuasion)
It would never occur to me that someone boarding my boat (entering my home) without my permission is anything but a deadly threat. I live in the suburbs not the inner city. I still donít just open my doors at night; my wife does not go out at night. If she hears a noise and I have to go look to see what it is, I have some type of weapon in my hand. We donít own guns but if I encounter someone actually in my house, with my wife and children, you bet Iím going to use as much force as I can muster in their defense. I understand life at sea or even more so in foreign lands is nothing like being home. I am not trying to pretend otherwise. And I know that if I were to actually take a life regardless of how it happened, I could never live with myself. I would be just as f****d up in the head over it if someone stepped out in front of my car as I would be if I found someone in my home. I think I would rather be suicidal over the fact that I took a life defending ours than be dead *glances at his lovely wife* or suffering the rest of her life. I suppose I would rather rot in some third world jail for defending her knowing she was safe at home
We know there are still pirates out there. I find it hard to believe that the coast of Africa is the only place they are encountered. I have come to understand this is a very U.S. attitude, but I just assumed when one went out to sea they were armed and prepared to protect themselves. After reading various threads I have learned that most people consider firearms more trouble than they are worth out there. From everything I have read I am sure this to be true
As we prepare for a future at sea, far from assistance where only the bad guys are allowed to be armed, where I have to worry not only about protecting myself but justifying how much force was used in doing so. I donít yet know how to reconcile myself to this. Another benefit I suppose from the fact that we wonít be cruising for some years yet. Gives a guy time to work things out.
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Old 29-01-2013, 10:52   #313
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

" What ever happened to being innocent until proven gulty? "
Rocketman, you missed something in Civics class. That queer notion is pretty much unique to American law. In MUCH or MOST of the world, you are presumed guilty until you can prove you are not. And IIRC that's the way Napoleanic Code, French law, still works.

A burglar who swims out to boats, so he can only make off with cash or jewelry on his return, is either very smart (no serial numbers) or very stupid (no goodies) or, perhaps, reason to ask if there was something else like a drug buy gone wrong happening.

Why presume the authorities are wrong and the sailor is innocent? If this was the bureaucratsforum.com would be all automatically assume the bureaucrats were right?
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Old 29-01-2013, 10:55   #314
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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seems on this thread people are generally assuming the guy didn't do anything wrong

we still know nothing really, but I have this feeling that once the details are known things are going to change
His word against the other guys dead words, means you can never know.
The truth come out already and how can you prove otherwise, unless the guy changes his story. THEN do you think he was forced somehow to change his story? Through strong coercive measures. Do these police and justice officials loose anything if the guy is truly innocent keeping him locked up and do they stand to gain something if he starts to sing a different tune. Perhaps he needs some public pressure exerted on his behalf from many voices. If it was you, you would want that.
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Old 29-01-2013, 11:36   #315
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Re: In Prison in St Lucia

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" What ever happened to being innocent until proven gulty? "
Rocketman, you missed something in Civics class. That queer notion is pretty much unique to American law. In MUCH or MOST of the world, you are presumed guilty until you can prove you are not. And IIRC that's the way Napoleanic Code, French law, still works.
I am too lazy to google up any links (Gord has done so on a few occassions in the past, possibly even in this thread!) - but the Napoleonic Code is not about Guilty until proved innocent . If it was it would (in the 21st Century) still not be used in Europe and in so many countries around the world....

...the big difference is that the UK (and US) approach is Adversorial (State largely looks to convict - defence looks to defend), whereas the Napoleonic Code is Inquistorial (State investigates to ascertain WTF happened, after that the defence starts - which obviously does take more time, albeit in practice no doubt less than perfect). IIRC also something to do with not using precedents so much (at all?) it's either in the written law or it is not - how another judge previously interpreted another case does not matter..........plusses and minuses to each system (go figure ), but certainly the Napoelionic Code is not about locking folks up until the case is decided (for a start no one could afford that approach, expensive enough locking up folks who have been convicted!)........and sure as sh#t La French themselves would have thrown out any system that took that approach (they be very uppity about stuff like that - hell, they even actually get boots on the ground now and again to do all the sorts of mass civil dis-obediance that folks in some other countries only wet dream about, whilst posting on FB ).

By way of historical context, The Napoleonic Code being rolled out accross Europe (as Napoleon marched through it!) was an event on a par (if not more significant!) than the USA creating it's constitution - I say possibly more significant as affected more people and because the USA at least started with far more of the rule of law, whereas most of Europe was still ruled on the whims and arbitary decisions of Princes, Popes and Priests..... the change was like jumping straight from a tin can on a piece of string to an I-Phone . Except with less porn .
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