ICW & Open Water Sailing - Mast Height

[jkleins]

Some of the 65’ bridges are not really 65’ at high tide. The bridge at Port Royal, SC is often less at high but easily 65’ as the substantial tide goes out. The one that is the most worrisome is the Wilkerson bridge in that the level seems to be less predictable as it is affected by the wind more then a predictable tidal flow.
In short you should really be less then 64’ to travel the path you seek and even then you will be playing the tides and nervous about many of the bridges. People do it all the time though so it is according to how long you want to take and how much trouble you want to go through.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Snore

Logically, when a boat is designed the manufacturer would love it to be ICW- friendly.

The fact that most cats are not ICW-friendly seems to indicate a shorter mast would make the boat sail worse. A shorter mast and longer boom would move the CE way aft. Messing with the rig raises too many issues.

For the cost of refitting, hire crew to help. You can get good crew for $100/day plus a ticket home. Way cheaper than messing with the boat and lowering its resale value. Better yet, you keep the same sailing characteristics.

Or hire a captain and crew...

No.. Its because most cats are built outside the USA so no interest in catering for a handful of Snowgeese who dont like open water.
Also.. Catamarans can make it down.. its the Condomarans that cant..

[Russ]

Wabasso. Last winter at low “tide”. 65’ , in your dreams. Russ

42’ Ted Brewer Steel cutter. Mast 63’6”

[Moody46CC]

A friend sailed a sister ship to mine with 65' mast plus anemometer, etc., from Chesapeake to FL via ICW. At Mile 1 he went up the mast and took off the VHF aerial, anemometer, etc. He said there were two bridges in NC he had to induce a lot of heel to clear. He told me which but I have forgotten. One may be that Wilkerson Bridge noted above. To induce heel, he filled his dinghy and hoisted it at the end of the swung out boom. Wife and son hiked out on the boom as well. They are still married.

From Beaufort they went largely off shore, coming in to Charleston and either Fernandina or St. Augustine.

[JasonS]

I know some 440s have had their mast cut down. You might want to ask around Lagoon owners to see responses on how it worked out.

We did our ASA cat class many years ago on a 440 and decided we wanted a boat that could do the bridges along the east coast. We live North of FT Lauderdale so have to go out for Julius Tuttle. We need about 61 feet with our Manta.

[MorwrMeic]

JohnnyH: We bought a Lagoon 420 in March and bought her in Fort Lauderdale to be based in New Bern, North Carolina and we had the mast cut down and mainsail adjusted to allow 65ft air clearance to make her ICW friendly. Job was done, superbly, by Nance and Underwood Rigging & Sails of Fort Lauderdale. Total cost was $5,830 including prepping & unstepping mast, cutting & adjusting mast head, adjusting mainsail, and restepping mast - most professional contractors who worked on the boat at LMC. I don’t believe it has reduced the value of the boat as having it “ICW Friendly” is a massive bonus for a boat based in the South East? JohnnyH: as an experienced L420 owner would love to speak with you & “pick your brains”. Cheers

[Scrimshaw4]

While one is led to believe that the Army Corp of Engineers maintains a mandate that fixed bridges must be a minimum of 65' clearance at MHW, unfortunately that is a myth. I am going south on the ICW now and have encountered several bridges in both North and South Carolina that are REGISTERED at 64'. Passage thru them is tight and I question weather the actual measurements are in fact at 64' even though the air boards, where there are any, show 64. This issue is being further compounded by the reality of rising sea levels. Greater attention now has to be paid to timing the bridges with the tides. In my opinion the mast height max for ICW travel should be no more than 62' as this allows room for antenna and instruments at the masthead to not be scraped off. JMHO

[johnnyH]

didnt think about all of thge equipment that goes on top of the mast. thanks you

[CarlF]

Every time this topic comes up people bring up the Wilkerson bridge - but it's not an issue for the OP as he can avoid it by going around by Manteo (where the bridge is above 65'). This route is no longer and also avoids the Alligator River which has a bridge that is often broken and is full of snags just below the surface. You can even sail some.

The low bridge with no tide that you can't avoid is the Pungo Ferry closer to Norfolk. It's as low as the Wilkerson -- perhaps a few inches lower. That said, I've gone under it (and the Wilkerson too) numerous times with a 64' 3"mast. But once I had to anchor for 48 hours at Pungo Ferry to let the water go down after an offshore storm with 3 days of high southerly winds.

So to the OP's question. 64' to the mast top is very doable from Norfolk to Fort Lauderdale. South of Beaufort NC there's plenty of tide so the best way to reduce stress is to time your day to not pass under a 65' bridge within 2 hours of high tide. Then you don't have to worry.

Before leaving Norfolk, take down the Windex and consider taking down the other wind instruments and the tricolor light if it is tall. The VHF whip will bend and make a most exciting "twang" noise as it passes under each bridge girder. -- giving any guests aboard a good story from their cruise

[gbillman]

I concur with the posts about researching bridge heights, but with regard to your question about a cat able to clear the "standard" 65' ICW clearance, I suggest the Leopard 40 (62' mast height). I keep mine behind my house on a canal just off the ICW near Melbourne. When I go offshore, I usually leave from either Port Canaveral (northbound) or Ft Pierce (southbound). If I need to stay inside for wx, I can still do so. Though I've never stayed inside all the way to MIA, I believe there is only 1 bridge that would have to be gone around for...and it's a short in/out, I hear. Northbound, I believe I'd be ok up the ditch a long way. Great cruising cat for a couple...mine's been across the Atlantic and all around the Caribbean. Once we REALLY retire, South Pacific is the plan.

[derfy]

My knowledge is local to North Carolina.

I chatted a couple weeks ago with a skipper on a new Beneteau 49, mast height 64', at the Oriental town dock. He had to use water bags rigged from the halyards to heel over and eek by the bridges between Norfolk and Oriental, a technique I would not like to try on my monohull. Not an option with a cat.

We routinely see 2-3 ft of wind surge in various locations around NC. Not storms ... just sustained wind. Southerly wind floods the upper ICW. Northers flood the Neuse and parts south of Oriental. Lunar tides are pretty negligible except as you near the coast. Something to check, though. Read the gauges on those bridges and know your mast height. Go slow if you are close.

[dptconst]

There are some good articles about this on the Lagoon Forums under cutting mast height.
A fractional rig solves energy loss

[pondering65]

Well if you like your boat then consider the option we took. We have L400 with mast height of 66,7" - we cut mast to 63' 8" - reduce our square top sail the same by removing 2'8" from bottom of sail. We made every bridge from FL to Virginia, granted it made us nervous on a few depending tide but only heard flexible vhf rub once or trwice. Have not noticed much speed difference except maybe .5 knots when under sail. It was not overly expensive and not noticeable to the eye when looking at mast. So it is nice to have all options of inside or out of ICW and probably help resale of vessel if and when we consider that option.

[Happ]

The ICW stand bridge height from Norfolk, VA mile 1 to the end is 65’ mean high water. That is not by USCG but by US Army Corps of Engineers.

I live in Beaufort, NC and a new bridge was just opened last year to replace a draw bridge. While it is not technically on the ICW it was designed by the US Army Corps of Engineers and is 65’.

When picking a boat with enough clearance keep in mind 2 things. The first is many newer boats have an array of lights and antennas at the top of the mast therefore extending the top of the mast by as much as 2-3’.

[Kenpimentel]

Leopard 40 has a mast that barely fits. I think it is 63' with a couple of feet for a VHF antenna. Definitely bent the VHF (without breaking it) on some bridges and had to wait for low water for a couple of the ones mentioned, but I could always get under all the primary ICW bridges "rated" for 65'.