Hurricanes... - Page 2

PyotrBee · 07-08-2009, 10:23

For anchorage yes. I was thinking of pulling it out on a trailer. Majors bay might be good for that too, but soon it will become a construction site and inaccessible for such.

PyotrBee · 13-08-2009, 22:06

OK back on this thread again. Found a boat.

Paperwork etc will take a bit, but that leaves us in a predicament as to when it will transfer. A hurricane might come before (problems for current owners), or soon after transfer (leaving me little time to do anything about it).

Its a cat with 22' beam, which means many haul out yards cannot handle it. It also too big and heavy it seems to be put on a trailer.

SKMW can lift it, but the yard is a mess and debris will be everywhere. I'm also not convinced on the reliability of his lift, evidently it was out of commission for quite some time last year and if that happens as a storm approaches....

Of course we can hope this season is benevolent, but I prefer to have a plan in place. I've done a LOT of reading based on links posted here and other. St Martin is not good, Antigua has some options.

I've been told by several people now to look at concrete blocks and mooring screws. Concrete blocks after reading seem to be a option to avoid and prefer helical mooring screws instead. How viable is this? A well mounted mooring screw or two with good lines in a semi sheltered location such as Majors, or even the deep water port?

Grenada of course gets good marks, but its too far to run on short notice. I'm also looking at taking the boat there soon but there are also issues of space available as well as timing of title transfer is unknown...

osirissail · 14-08-2009, 05:25

- - If the boat is a catamaran, what does the underside look like? Some cats have daggerboards on each pontoon while others have fixed little keels extending down maybe a half meter from the pontoon. With daggerboards the bottom of the pontoon is flat and smooth so you can get it further up creeks and other areas inaccessible to monohulls and some cats. Also the propeller and/or saildrive - how far down from the bottom of a pontoon do they extend? (Side note: did you have a mechanic serious inspect the saildrives if the boat has them? The early ones are notorious for corrosion problems and internal shaft/gearing problems.)
- - Did you actually call some of the boatyards in the BVI's and USVI's? Maybe with the world financial collapse they may not be totally full. Or where is the boat now? Did you do an out of water survey? If so what about the yard where that was done. Even with "keel-lets" you can have two little holes dug for the keel-lets and then have the boat placed on the ground with supports to hold the sterns up to allow for any prop or saildrives.
- - The experiences we had down here in Grenada during Hurricane Ivan was that in one boatyard 100% of the monohulls feel off the jack stands due lack of connection between opposing stands and mostly from the stands being washed out from under the boats by the enormous rainfall. Catamarans fell off their short jackstands and damaged drives and keel-lets. Every boat was de-masted by falling over in the case of mono's and cats having their mast knocked off by a falling mono. Making sure your cat is away from a mono is important.

PyotrBee · 14-08-2009, 06:16

It has fixed keels, total draft 3' 9".

Inspection - not yet. Final sale is pending an inspection not revealing anything not previously disclosed and we are searching for the best place to do that. Possibly can do it at SKMW, but I need to see what the insurance requirements are regarding inspection so we might have to go to St Martin, or Antigua.

There was an out of water inspection last year and I have copies of that. I've had divers do a preliminary hull inspection and I have a diesel mechanic from the coast guard who will do a check on the engines.

Boat is in St Kitts.

I've talked to several boat yards, Ive found a few that say they might have space and are checking, but of course they are the most expensive ones.

Engines are sail drives and boat is a 2001 model, so its not that old.

I expect in future years I will take it to Grenada or further south when the hurricane season starts up. But it would be nice if I could find something closer to home, and definitely need to for this year.

Zanshin · 14-08-2009, 07:20

I put mine on the hard in Antigua - good facilities and relatively well protected. If you are there with the and have 7 knots hull speed and could make the time, couldn't you plan on using the 3-4 day weather warning to avoid the dangerous zone? You could head north (Grand Baie, St. Maarten) or south (as far as Trinidad) to avoid the main effects of a big one? I think that by the time you know of a storm and want to haul out it will be too late due to heavy activity.

s/v Moondancer · 19-08-2009, 00:40

Have you checked on insurance? Hard to get hurricane coverage for the upper and mid Caribbean

**Hud3** · 19-08-2009, 04:27

It can be had, but you have to scratch around to find it. And pay the price. For some strange reason, they're worried about little things like Bill...

PyotrBee · 19-08-2009, 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

Have you checked on insurance? Hard to get hurricane coverage for the upper and mid Caribbean

Yes thanks. I found a few that were quite high, but now I've found some that are much more reasonable.

osirissail · 19-08-2009, 07:12

Be sure to check out exactly who the "much more reasonable" companies are and what is their record of paying off. After hurricane Ivan in Grenada, almost all the boats who were insured where with 3 different major offshore insurance companies. One company the had over 100 of the boats decided it didn't have the resources to pay so closed their doors. Several of my friends had paid premiums for many years and got nothing - $0.00 - back. That ended their cruising life as they had to dip into retirement funds to pay for the repairs. The other two companies paid off just fine and promptly.
So investigate carefully, "much more reasonable" might just be a hint that they will not pay off when the crunch occurs.

PyotrBee · 19-08-2009, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirissail

Be sure to check out exactly who the "much more reasonable" companies are and what is their record of paying off. After hurricane Ivan in Grenada, almost all the boats who were insured where with 3 different major offshore insurance companies. One company the had over 100 of the boats decided it didn't have the resources to pay so closed their doors. Several of my friends had paid premiums for many years and got nothing - $0.00 - back. That ended their cruising life as they had to dip into retirement funds to pay for the repairs. The other two companies paid off just fine and promptly.
So investigate carefully, "much more reasonable" might just be a hint that they will not pay off when the crunch occurs.

Its always hard to tell which ones are which, aside from ratings. The one I'm looking at now says:
" Great Lakes Reinsurance A rated"

s/v Moondancer · 19-08-2009, 08:21

I was with Great Lakes, good but have very agressive depreciation schedules and after a few years boat insurance is way below purchase price. They would not cover me mid-Caribbean be sure you are not in an excluded area. Last year they would only cove me north of Hattaras and even then the deductable was very high if the storm had a name.

Phil

PyotrBee · 19-08-2009, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

I was with Great Lakes, good but have very agressive depreciation schedules and after a few years boat insurance is way below purchase price. They would not cover me mid-Caribbean be sure you are not in an excluded area. Last year they would only cove me north of Hattaras and even then the deductable was very high if the storm had a name.

Phil

They quoted me to cover Caribbean even in hurricane season. The sale price is below survey value, and I asked them to insure for survey value and the quote reflects it.

Deductible was 3800 USD, double during named storms which seemed reasonable to me. Too low of a deductible during named storms I think would encourage recklessness.

PyotrBee · 19-08-2009, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hud3

Majors Bay is much superior to Cockleshell as a storm anchorage, but neither are very protected from the southern sector.

I talked to the owners of the 46' cats, they all go to Dieppe Bay which has a large reef protecting it.

s/v Moondancer · 19-08-2009, 08:44

That is so much better than I was quoted last year. Could you send me details of your agent/insurer.

DrPKellett@aol.com

Phil

PyotrBee · 19-08-2009, 08:46

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19-08-2009, 04:27	#22
Hud3 Moderator Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Nevis, West Indies Boat: Island Packet 380, The Belle of Virginia (now sold) Posts: 5,109 Images: 17	It can be had, but you have to scratch around to find it. And pay the price. For some strange reason, they're worried about little things like Bill... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Hud Nevis, West Indies Click to Search Cruisers Forum Archives

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07-08-2009, 10:23	#16
PyotrBee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39	For anchorage yes. I was thinking of pulling it out on a trailer. Majors bay might be good for that too, but soon it will become a construction site and inaccessible for such.

13-08-2009, 22:06	#17
PyotrBee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39	OK back on this thread again. Found a boat. Paperwork etc will take a bit, but that leaves us in a predicament as to when it will transfer. A hurricane might come before (problems for current owners), or soon after transfer (leaving me little time to do anything about it). Its a cat with 22' beam, which means many haul out yards cannot handle it. It also too big and heavy it seems to be put on a trailer. SKMW can lift it, but the yard is a mess and debris will be everywhere. I'm also not convinced on the reliability of his lift, evidently it was out of commission for quite some time last year and if that happens as a storm approaches.... Of course we can hope this season is benevolent, but I prefer to have a plan in place. I've done a LOT of reading based on links posted here and other. St Martin is not good, Antigua has some options. I've been told by several people now to look at concrete blocks and mooring screws. Concrete blocks after reading seem to be a option to avoid and prefer helical mooring screws instead. How viable is this? A well mounted mooring screw or two with good lines in a semi sheltered location such as Majors, or even the deep water port? Grenada of course gets good marks, but its too far to run on short notice. I'm also looking at taking the boat there soon but there are also issues of space available as well as timing of title transfer is unknown...

14-08-2009, 05:25	#18
osirissail Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: onboard in the Caribbean - mostly in Grenada Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris Posts: 1,061	- - If the boat is a catamaran, what does the underside look like? Some cats have daggerboards on each pontoon while others have fixed little keels extending down maybe a half meter from the pontoon. With daggerboards the bottom of the pontoon is flat and smooth so you can get it further up creeks and other areas inaccessible to monohulls and some cats. Also the propeller and/or saildrive - how far down from the bottom of a pontoon do they extend? (Side note: did you have a mechanic serious inspect the saildrives if the boat has them? The early ones are notorious for corrosion problems and internal shaft/gearing problems.) - - Did you actually call some of the boatyards in the BVI's and USVI's? Maybe with the world financial collapse they may not be totally full. Or where is the boat now? Did you do an out of water survey? If so what about the yard where that was done. Even with "keel-lets" you can have two little holes dug for the keel-lets and then have the boat placed on the ground with supports to hold the sterns up to allow for any prop or saildrives. - - The experiences we had down here in Grenada during Hurricane Ivan was that in one boatyard 100% of the monohulls feel off the jack stands due lack of connection between opposing stands and mostly from the stands being washed out from under the boats by the enormous rainfall. Catamarans fell off their short jackstands and damaged drives and keel-lets. Every boat was de-masted by falling over in the case of mono's and cats having their mast knocked off by a falling mono. Making sure your cat is away from a mono is important.

14-08-2009, 06:16	#19
PyotrBee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39	It has fixed keels, total draft 3' 9". Inspection - not yet. Final sale is pending an inspection not revealing anything not previously disclosed and we are searching for the best place to do that. Possibly can do it at SKMW, but I need to see what the insurance requirements are regarding inspection so we might have to go to St Martin, or Antigua. There was an out of water inspection last year and I have copies of that. I've had divers do a preliminary hull inspection and I have a diesel mechanic from the coast guard who will do a check on the engines. Boat is in St Kitts. I've talked to several boat yards, Ive found a few that say they might have space and are checking, but of course they are the most expensive ones. Engines are sail drives and boat is a 2001 model, so its not that old. I expect in future years I will take it to Grenada or further south when the hurricane season starts up. But it would be nice if I could find something closer to home, and definitely need to for this year.

14-08-2009, 07:20	#20
Zanshin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Germany Boat: Jeanneau 49DS Posts: 389	I put mine on the hard in Antigua - good facilities and relatively well protected. If you are there with the and have 7 knots hull speed and could make the time, couldn't you plan on using the 3-4 day weather warning to avoid the dangerous zone? You could head north (Grand Baie, St. Maarten) or south (as far as Trinidad) to avoid the main effects of a big one? I think that by the time you know of a storm and want to haul out it will be too late due to heavy activity.

19-08-2009, 00:40	#21
s/v Moondancer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Caribbean and moving north Boat: Tayana 55 Posts: 355	Have you checked on insurance? Hard to get hurricane coverage for the upper and mid Caribbean

19-08-2009, 07:12	#24
osirissail Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: onboard in the Caribbean - mostly in Grenada Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris Posts: 1,061	Be sure to check out exactly who the "much more reasonable" companies are and what is their record of paying off. After hurricane Ivan in Grenada, almost all the boats who were insured where with 3 different major offshore insurance companies. One company the had over 100 of the boats decided it didn't have the resources to pay so closed their doors. Several of my friends had paid premiums for many years and got nothing - $0.00 - back. That ended their cruising life as they had to dip into retirement funds to pay for the repairs. The other two companies paid off just fine and promptly. So investigate carefully, "much more reasonable" might just be a hint that they will not pay off when the crunch occurs.

19-08-2009, 08:21	#26
s/v Moondancer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Caribbean and moving north Boat: Tayana 55 Posts: 355	I was with Great Lakes, good but have very agressive depreciation schedules and after a few years boat insurance is way below purchase price. They would not cover me mid-Caribbean be sure you are not in an excluded area. Last year they would only cove me north of Hattaras and even then the deductable was very high if the storm had a name. Phil

19-08-2009, 08:44	#29
s/v Moondancer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Caribbean and moving north Boat: Tayana 55 Posts: 355	That is so much better than I was quoted last year. Could you send me details of your agent/insurer. DrPKellett@aol.com Phil

19-08-2009, 08:46	#30
PyotrBee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39	Marine Insurance Boat Insurance Marina Insurance Boatyard Insurance Crusing Insurance from Offshore Risk Management