Help with Decision to Self Deliver Charter?

[That Guy]

Hey everyone...

I'm super new to all of this! We just came off a charter in the BVI a couple weeks ago and we're hooked. We're looking into round #2 for next spring.

We want to sail from St. Vincent down to Grenada one way. This would require paying for the charter company to deliver a boat from Grenada to St. Vincent for us to pick up and return over the course of our charter.

Our other option would be for a few of us from our group to pick the boat up in Grenada and deliver it to St. Vincent ourselves where we'd meet the rest of our group and then head back to Grenada at a more leisurely pace. I'm trying to figure out if this option is worth the extra hassle of figuring out the logistics.

This is really only feasible if we can accomplish 2 things:
1) Save some money (or roughly break even and get the extra boat time)
2) Arrive in St. Vincent to meet the rest of our group at a reasonable hour so as to not short their time on the boat.

In figuring out if this is a feasible option for us, I am trying to figure out the following:
- If we left Grenada no later than noon on day #1, would it be reasonable to make it to Clifton/Union Island in time to take care of customs that same day?

- How difficult/time consuming is the customs process going from Grenada to SVG?

- Assuming Grenada to Clifton on day #1 is feasible, how long would it take us to sail from Clifton to Blue Lagoon Marina on St. Vincent?

We'd like to avoid motoring if at all possible, so as long as there is wind, we'd prefer to sail. If it matters at all, we're probably booking with Dream Yacht Charter and bringing our own skipper.

Thank you!!!

[Dave_S]

I'm on the other side of the globe or plate (depending on who you talk to) so no good on local info. A web site called Noonsite ( https://www.noonsite.com/ ) will have all sorts of info on checking in etc..

If the charter company deliver the boat they will charge you the rental time and for a delivery crew + expenses - cleaning the boat, accommodation, fuel, taxis, airfares, food, etc so if I were you I'd sail it myself and not pay someone else to have the fun at my expense.

I don't know what type of boat you are chartering but charter boats typically are not the greatest sail boats and dependant on the wind and direction you will likely have to motor if you are trying to keep a schedule or leave yourselves a wide time window to allow you to wait for wind. In some places this can be a loooooong time. The delivery crew will probably use whatever is the fastest way at the time. They might work out travel time based on 6kn, 24hrs a day, 7days per week, if they drop below 6kn they will crank up the motor to maintain the schedule.


P.S. Another thought from the other view, what if there is bad weather, a delivery crew will probably push through some pretty awful conditions to make the schedule where you might be better off not to. then your in trouble with your mates.

[S/V Illusion]

Are you sure you are competent to do this trip? Describing yourself as “super new” wouldn’t give any charter company management much comfort.

[Jim Cate]

Having a rigid schedule is a sure way to bugger up a vacation, land or sea.

As others have mentioned, what would be your viable back up plan if the wx was really unkind to your delivery portion of the cruise? Do you thrash the boat (possibly damaging her) or do you stiff the rest of the crew? How do you think the charter company will like the idea of a novice sailor taking that responsibility with their boat?

I'm as cheap as chips myself, but I think this is a good time to pay for the delivery.

Jim

[SailSC]

I faced the same issue a few years ago and we decided to do a round trip out of Grenada. This worked better for our flights and saved the one way fees. We made it as far up as Bequia before returning back down Island to Grenada. Enjoyed Carriacou, Bequia, Myreau, Tobago Cays, Union Island and of course Grenada. We had several issues that caused delays and challenges (part of the fun) so I’m glad our crew was all together and not trying to meet up somewhere else.

[That Guy]

DAVE_S -
Great advice...I've crunched the numbers over and over again and find that adding two extra days to the charter only adds several hundred dollars over having the boat delivered. Seems like it should be more than that, but apparently not! We're chartering a 2019, 45' Lagoon 450F. I've talked with the skipper we had on our last charter and you pretty much nailed it...but she said they use 7 knots instead of 6 before they fire up the engines. She basically told me that with my schedule to just plan on motor-sailing and if conditions allow sailing only that's just a bonus.

S/V ILLUSION -
WHOA! Competency police on patrol! Ha! These boats have paddles right? I'll be fine...I'll just paddle from the front so I can see any big rocks and stuff.

JIM CATE -
Well, not quite as stinging as being called "incompetent" haha! So I won't be the skipper. My buddy who's been sailing for 25+years is going to be the skipper. I'm just the organizer/planner of the trip. He's given me his input on the decision to self deliver or not, but the more advice and input I can get the better. Once I talked with our skipper from our last charter in the BVI (who's also a broker for DYC) and accepted the fact that we may very well be motoring most of the way in order to make our schedule to meet the wives in St. Vincent I felt much more comfortable with the decision to self deliver. I'm currently leaning about 90% toward self delivery. P.S..."Cheap as chips"...never heard that before...Love it! Ha!

SAILSC -
More great advice! Thank you. The original idea was for the two days of delivery to be just the guys so we could hang out for a little while without the wives. Plus, none of the wives really want to spend that much time underway at one time.

Thanks again for all the input...I really do appreciate it. Well, most of it......what size paddle should I bring? Haha!

[Flagman101]

Grenada to blue lagoon in 2 days will be full time sailing.
You will need to head out first thing in the morning. Noon is to late.
Hard to get to clifton in time to check in on day one.
You could just stop at petit Martinique wich is Grenada territory, then sail the next day to blue lagoon and check in there.
From petit martinique to blue lagoon is about 6 hours depending on how good you paddle ;-)
If you are lucky you have south east winds , but you most likely get north east winds.
Do note sail on the east side of bequia onless you like tacking and getting cross waves. Sail the leeside.
Do note that coming in blue lagoon can be tricky if you have a deep keel. Cats are ok to use the marked pass. If you have more then 5 feet of keel contact the marina for assistance.
You will need a taxi to provision. DYC can hook you up with there driver.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Having a rigid schedule is a sure way to bugger up a vacation, land or sea.

Jim

Yasss queen, this ^^^

We've been sailing around the Med for the past 2 years (one year land based and now full time liveaboard). Started out with schedules. Plans. The like.

And learned that all it took was one day where the weather is a bit off the forecasts to screw up EVERYTHING down the line. We went from planning day to day, to week by week.... still not good enough. We've been slowing our schedules and plans down to almost a standstill, and that seems to work okay Keep your traveling days to a minimum and you'll be happier, and safer to stay on a charter schedule.

If you need the boat to be at a place for sure, get the crew to deliver it (and even then it might not). Budget extra days for this, and if all goes well you get some more time at a favorite destination.

[Jim Cate]

We've been slowing our schedules and plans down to almost a standstill, and that seems to work okay

You, young lady, are a quick study! It took Ann and I far longer than two years to learn that lesson! But learn it we did, and a more peaceful and pleasant cruising life has resulted.

I never went down the charter route, and the enforced schedule (and odd rules about when one can sail and when one can not) have ensured that I'll never venture into that realm.

OP, if the gods smile upon your endeavor you may well succeed. If they have their usual thuggish ways, please do have a viable plan B in mind. I wish you well!

Jim

[Flagman101]

That guy, what time of year?

[capnmatt]

We did a one-way from St. Lucia to Grenada about a year and a half ago (February or March). Had the boat delivered and had a great sail down to Grenada. There were times I was really glad we weren't trying to go the other way. I don't believe they charged us for the days used for the delivery - but the delivery cost wasn't exactly cheap. In any case, unless you're one of those sailors who like being bounced around and blasted by wind and salt water for hours on end I'd strongly consider having the boat delivered. The Windwards are much more exposed than the BVIs and the trip from Grenada to St. Vincent at that time of the year can be rough - particularly if you are on a timeline. Between islands the swell is coming in from the Atlantic and it can be big. Maybe you'd get lucky and get pretty settled conditions and a great sail, or maybe the winds will swing to the north and you'll could get 10' swells and 25 knots on the nose.

If you do decide to deliver the boat yourself and you don't get going before noon I doubt you'd make Union that day - at least not before C&I closes. Rather you will most likely be stuck waiting for C&I to open the next morning and maybe not get off that next day until late in the morning. Rather, I'd consider stopping at Tyrell Bay and clearing out of Grenada that afternoon. That would allow you to leave early in the morning and you could probably make Blue Lagoon that next day with time to clear in there - but you might have to motor into aforementioned wind and swell. That said, if you do decide to deliver the boat yourself with no time to spare you need to be open to motoring and realize it might be straight into some fairly heavy conditions.

Bottom line is conditions will play a major part of how things will work out for you and of course you have no idea what you'll be dealing with until a few days before. The biggest problem is being on a timeline to get up to St. Vincent and what will you do if conditions make that a challenge or dangerous? Chances are good everything will be fine, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that you will be thrown a curve ball.

[That Guy]

UPDATE:
So, here's the plan...
May 28
- Check in to boat in St. George's and get as much boat/chart briefings done as possible that afternoon/evening
- Take care of the bulk of our provisioning that afternoon/evening
May 29
- Clear Grenada customs at marina in St. George's and leave as early as possible...NLT noon.
- Motor/sail to Chatham Bay, drop anchor do not go ashore as we're not cleared by SVG customs yet.
May 30
- Depart Chatham Bay at first light and motor/sail to arrive at Blue Lagoon (hopefully) NLT 1400
- Clear customs into St. Vincent at Blue Lagoon
- Ladies arrive to SVG by air at 1430 so will be on boat by 1530-1600
- Maybe stay in Blue Lagoon Marina that night or head out and grab a mooring ball or anchor somewhere in the area
May 31
- Schedule slows....basically just need to be back to Grenada by dusk on June 9th.

JIM CATE - Thanks for the well wishes!! We do have a plan B set...that's simply the ladies hanging out in a hotel (believe me, they'll have fun wherever they are!) and we get there when we get there!

FLAGMAN 101 - Thanks for the suggestions! Dates: May 28 - June 10...2020.

CAPTNMATT - Thank you for the advice and input...greatly appreciated! I have resigned myself to the fact that motoring will likely be a reality on most of the trip north. If we have good enough conditions to sail, great...if not, I'm okay with motoring.

Thanks all!

[fahtcha]

Having just done a similar trip from Grenada last May, my suggestion is that it would be good to plan to depart by 10 a.m.

[capnmatt]

Just be a bit cautious about your plan to drop anchor at Catham and then leave the next morning without clearing in to SVG. I believe that as soon as you drop the anchor it is no longer considered innocent passage and you are supposed to clear in before moving on.

We once got a nice little lecture from a US immigration officer for doing this. Transiting from the BVI to the Spanish Virgins, spent the night at anchor in Christmas Cove (USVI) and then proceeded to the Spanish Virgins without first clearing in at the USVI. I pleaded ignorance and the immigration officer let me off with a one-time warning, but said it otherwise would have been a minimum $5,000 fine.

I'm not certain what position SVG takes on it, and you likely wouldn't get caught as long as you get there late and leave early, but it is a risk. If you want to play it safe just get as far north in Grenada waters as you can the first day and then make St. Vincent that next day. Shouldn't be more than an extra hour or so that next day versus your plan to leave from Catham. You can clear out before leaving St. George's as you have 24 hours to depart Grenada after clearing out. That would keep you legal in SVG and one less variable that you'd have to worry about.

[Flagman101]

You can drop the hook, raise the Q flag and not go to shore.