Haiti attack on Cruisers.

[cards26]

Originally Posted by smj

Man you must have a lot of money and must have really pissed some people of. Did you gain your riches by pissing people of? Just move dude, sounds like a really sucky lifestyle!

haha.....I had a lot of money until i got married for the first time at 59yo.....I can't believe how much my wife's kids cost. So instead of an Amel, it's going to be a Hunter 21. Hopefully, a Seaward though.

I keep a real low profile here, and have not even known many people, let alone piss them off. It's $50usd for a hitman here, everyone is quite polite for that reason.

Almost everyone has some kind of security, even the poorest of the poor. I know lots of ordinary people that have armor plates in their cars. I know a guy that has 7 bodyguards living in his house with him, and yes, he pissed some people off.

I wanted to leave a long time ago, but it's only recently that my wife agreed to the move. If I was single, I would have been long gone.

[alansmith]

Originally Posted by colemj

Beer sign.

Or better yet:

Mark

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We live in Whoville Massachusetts. Shots rang out at 4:30 am yesterday morning as my wife was getting ready for work. A drive by shooting next door, 40ft from the kitchen window, some gang members pumped 7 shots into the next door neighbor's house... the same house where their teenage kid was arrested two weeks ago for attempted murder.


My wife and I guard the inside of our house 24/7 with Ak47s and M4s. Don't understand how the local politicians get away with claiming crime is decreasing..... not around here anyway.


My wife didn't even seem upset; I asked her later why she didn't call the police? She said, "it's not like they will do anything about it." It's weird how we actually get used to this crap. It'll be interesting to see if the shooting even makes the local newspaper tomorrow.

Kenomac, Sir, please don't take this in the wrong vein...I also believe in home protection. By the time the police would arrive at my premises after a "911" call the blood would already be dry. That being said, may I suggest that urban assault rifles when used even correctly would penetrate several layers of cinderblock. Can you imagine the consequences when you have to shoot at something that goes "Boo" in the night and you penetrate 2 or three houses with solid jacket bullets whilst you try to scare or harm the intruder away? Shotguns are the ticket for home defense. I keep my chambered and by the bed. You can get all kinds of rounds but stay away from slugs (see above). Spear guns and carpenters nail guns work well also. I do keep a 45 with hollow point as a backup for the serious Zombie attacks. Assault rifles have too many legal consequences in Nazi California...smile.

[RTB]

Originally Posted by cards26

I keep a real low profile here, and have not even known many people, let alone piss them off. It's $50usd for a hitman here, everyone is quite polite for that reason.

Almost everyone has some kind of security, even the poorest of the poor. I know lots of ordinary people that have armor plates in their cars. I know a guy that has 7 bodyguards living in his house with him, and yes, he pissed some people off.

Just curious where in Colombia you are? I spent a week or so in Cartagena a few years ago (anchored near Club Nautico). It certainly seemed like a safe, friendly place.

Ralph

[Polux]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

It takes more than foreign Aid/investment to get a good name. China pumps huge amounts of cash into a lot of economies, but nobody sees China as a knight in shining armour.

US foreign Aid in under developed nations has long been viewed as a poorly disguised imperialism.
...

Different polices on the last decades, US basically aids local politicians and governments and do almost anything he can to have there Politicians loyal to US (like Sadam Hussein) even if they are bloody dictators. Normally those on CIA payroll are corrupt Politicians and the money instead to ending up helping people's lives end's up on the hands of a corrupt oligarchy.

The Chinese help comes normally not on money but in works of infrastructures to help developing the country (dams, roads, railroads, power stations) that are normally built under Chinese supervision with Chineses working side by side with locals.

I always found that's a wrong policy in what regards US: In the end populations (that's what in the end matters) associates US with corruption and Imperialism while the Chinese have a much more positive image on the 3th world and a positive image is half way to a efficient foreign policy.

The funny thing is that US spends more money then China on helping under developed countries and China ends up with much more positive results in what regards foreign policy.

[Goosebumps]

I think CF threads shouldnt be deviated into judgemental posts about "others". To u derstand what happens in any community one has to obrain and dugest lots of information and then still realize that one's own background colours the views and opinions. We are sailors and if we are cruisers we should try to behave with respect and not expeçt humanity to all of the sudden be without any problems jyst because we liveaboard and arrive in far away places univited.


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[CSY Man]

. We are sailors and if we are cruisers we should try to behave with respect and not expeçt humanity to all of the sudden be without any problems

Not sure what you are trying to say in a round-about way....?
We should expect to be robbed and raped when arriving at the doorsteps of a new country?

Lesson to be learned here is to stay far away from certain countries: In my book Haiti is number 1, Jamaica number 2. A few more countries on the list, but as pleasure sailors we have the choice to stay away from dangerous dumps, not sure why anybody would go there in the first place ?

My boat was broken into in St. Thomas and my car broken into in St. Croix.
No island or country is immune, but a least stay away from the worst places.

[cards26]

Originally Posted by RTB

Just curious where in Colombia you are? I spent a week or so in Cartagena a few years ago (anchored near Club Nautico). It certainly seemed like a safe, friendly place.

Ralph

I'm in Medellin.

I've stated before that surrounding Bocagrande in Cartagena are high rise apt buildings containing DEA agents with state of the art equipment, filming/photographing everything going on within that harbor. From the time you entered, until the time you left, you were photographed, and this info/photos was emailed to headquarters in Washington as it happened. The surveillance is total. No one is going to mess around there.

Actually, cruising along the Colombian coast may be quite safe as a result of the massive presence of U.S. Coast Guard ships involved in cocaine interdiction. There's also a strong presence of the U.S. Navy off the coast of unstable Venezuela.

The closest nautical problem in this area, besides Buenaventura on the Pacific Coast are those islands west of Panama. There are lots of pirates there that don't hurt anybody, but just do a robbery. Lots of mariners don't report the crime. Back in October, a man from I think from Germany was murdered on his boat though. It goes in cycles, things get out of hand, police are forced to act, slows down for a while, and then crime picks up again.

[cards26]

What saves Americans from more crime is that the people here think that ALL Americans have guns. This may come from the westerns on TV, Dirty Harry...I dunno.

[Claude_Marie]

Originally Posted by Polux

The Chinese help comes normally not on money but in works of infrastructures to help developing the country (dams, roads, railroads, power stations) that are normally built under Chinese supervision with Chineses working side by side with locals.
.

I do not desagree with you but you got me lost.
When US Contractors rebuild Haiti, don't they work side by side with the local ?

Else, I have read " American imperialism about US aid".
20th century Soviet propaganda, and Europeans were called colonialists ( not any better), time to move on, it is 21st century.

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Polux

Different polices on the last decades, US basically aids local politicians and governments and do almost anything he can to have there Politicians loyal to US (like Sadam Hussein) even if they are bloody dictators. Normally those on CIA payroll are corrupt Politicians and the money instead to ending up helping people's lives end's up on the hands of a corrupt oligarchy.

The Chinese help comes normally not on money but in works of infrastructures to help developing the country (dams, roads, railroads, power stations) that are normally built under Chinese supervision with Chineses working side by side with locals.

I always found that's a wrong policy in what regards US: In the end populations (that's what in the end matters) associates US with corruption and Imperialism while the Chinese have a much more positive image on the 3th world and a positive image is half way to a efficient foreign policy.

The funny thing is that US spends more money then China on helping under developed countries and China ends up with much more positive results in what regards foreign policy.

I was kind of thinking the same about China as I wrote. Massive infrastructure programs in the Caribbean. Antigua is a good example.

Although I'm not quite sure how the Nicaragua Canal project is going to play out.

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[colemj]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

I was kind of thinking the same about China as I wrote. Massive infrastructure programs in the Caribbean. Antigua is a good example.

More than just infrastructure. The Chinese are immigrating in large numbers into these countries and communities and becoming landowners, shop owners, etc. They are bringing parts of their culture (food, for example) and integrating it in with the local culture. I don't think I have been to a single Latin America town or city without a large Chinese commercial and residential presence integrated throughout it. We just spent a month in Peru where there are Chinese restaurants on every corner of every town, and Peruvians are proud of their tradition of eating "Chifo" once per week.

I can't think of a single example of similar US immigration or businesses, and hardly any examples of Western Europe outside of a few in the immediate recreational marine industry.

Mark

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by colemj

More than just infrastructure. The Chinese are immigrating in large numbers into these countries and communities and becoming landowners, shop owners, etc. They are bringing parts of their culture (food, for example) and integrating it in with the local culture. I don't think I have been to a single Latin America town or city without a large Chinese commercial and residential presence integrated throughout it. We just spent a month in Peru where there are Chinese restaurants on every corner of every town, and Peruvians are proud of their tradition of eating "Chifo" once per week.

I can't think of a single example of similar US immigration or businesses, and hardly any examples of Western Europe outside of a few in the immediate recreational marine industry.

Mark

Probably because the Chinese are looking for better living conditions and Western Europe and the US aren't, today. I feel the Chinese Gov. encourages it selectively. Re: Haiti there has been a no. of people going to Haiti from the US in order to give aid. I think it is for naught with a corrupt government. Because, I have to agree, US aid goes to the government and is never seen for anything but lining pockets.

[Claude_Marie]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Probably because the Chinese are looking for better living conditions and Western Europe and the US aren't, today.

I have just read a story about chinese famillies (not in number, yet) relocating themselves from the E.U to....

...

...

China !

Thriving chinese economy sought to offer better opportunities for their kids.

[Canibul]

For several years we supported a missionary boat run out of Florida, the schooner Star of the Sea. They were running food and supplies donated by churches in the US to Haiti. We were told by the captain that they sailed all the way around to Ille a Vache, and based there to distribute the food packages to local orphanages. He said the ONLY way to get the food to the people who were starving was to bypass the US and Haitian government programs entirely. He told us of stacks and stacks of perishable goods sitting in locked, fenced compounds in Port Au Prince, guarded by the military police. All those donations the Americans gave are going to feed and clothe the regime. Not the population.

[sailorboy1]

wonder how those cruisers are doing