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Old 18-04-2015, 10:18   #31
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

How many cities come to mind where it would be safe to sail up and drop the hook and sit at anchor for a few days? Singapore?
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Old 18-04-2015, 10:36   #32
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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The answer is far more basic. Fisherman turn to pirates because they have little and stealing from unprotected, unaware strangers is a far easier and faster way to accumulate wealth. It's pretty simple, really.
I would say, it's not only simple but primitive! Intelligent people would rather think about a legal business, than the momentary gain from a questionable raid. At least they could alternatively earn much more money in the near future by building a relationship of trust. But this opportunity they have now missed forever.
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Old 18-04-2015, 10:37   #33
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Never had a problem anchoring in Fort Lauderdale, Miami or Key West to name a few.
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Old 18-04-2015, 10:44   #34
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Thanks, Mark, for being the nexus for this information.

Haiti features prominently in the piracy, crime, and corruption stories in Seized: A Sea Captain's Adventures Battling Scoundrels and Pirates While Recovering Stolen Ships in the World's Most Troubled Waters. It has colored my view of Haiti, though I'm not sure how much this book can be believed.

Ocean life in the old sailing ship days has stories of 19th century piracy in the Bahamas. This is a reliable first person account from that time.

Some of the comments in this thread are incoherent. Is it maturity or conceit that I don't want to participate?
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Old 18-04-2015, 11:07   #35
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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Haiti is a law-less sh!t hole and should be avoided at all cost, even in an emergency.
Numerous stories of piracy in Haitian waters, even locals putting out fake lights to lure sailors aground, then rob and loot the wreck.

Stay far away from Haiti
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Old 18-04-2015, 11:15   #36
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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I would say, it's not only simple but primitive! Intelligent people would rather think about a legal business, than the momentary gain from a questionable raid. At least they could alternatively earn much more money in the near future by building a relationship of trust. But this opportunity they have now missed forever.
i would agree with the first part of this. it is primitive. the basic drive to survive and thrive. however, i wouldn't say it's a matter of lacking intelligence. it's a bit more involved than that.

law abiding is a balancing act. really only two things make doing things in a legal, honest manner attractive:

1. fear of consequences
2. prospects for profit from safer legal means
3. moral education from society/family/religion

the third one, moral education, can't be counted on. it is the weak variable. it depends on strong society and family connections. the big three modern religions depend on fear to enforce ethics, rather than personal enlightenment. that takes us to number 1. also, morality is an intangible. intangibles usually yield to tangibles, during most people's thought processes.

one other thing to consider about number 3 is that, in many societies, the moral social code only really applies to those within the society. as with the vikings and most other cultures, it's only bad to plunder and pillage in your own neighborhood. loot gained from plundering outside of your neighborhood improves the quality of life for your own people. when you cruise into distant ports, you aren't a part of the neighborhood. you are an outsider and not really protected by the moral social code...even if you may be protected by the law.


the first two, fear and profit, have a strong interplay.

in a place where law enforcement is weak (or belief in divine punishment; where religion is concerned), the fear of consequences begins to lose power. for some individuals, if the possible gains from risking consequences are very great, that's all it takes to overpower the fear of consequences.

on the other hand, if the possibility of gaining wealth (or even the barest necessities) by legal means is very poor, it begins to overpower the fear of consequences and makes illegal gains more attractive; even moreso if the gains are easily made or high in worth.

now, take an area that may have poor law enforcement and a poor local economy. making legal money isn't all that easy. making illegal money can be far faster and easier. with the addition of poor law enforcement, lowering the chance of having to face the consequenses of law, will make illegal activity even more tempting. when that illegal activity is perpetrated against strangers not even from the same land mass, strangers perceived as having a lot of wealth, you negate the moral argument.

at that point, logic and reason, without the taboo of belief and morality, would dictate that ill gotten wealth is a far superior risk than the promise of sinking farther into poverty by continuing to use legal means.
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Old 18-04-2015, 11:19   #37
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Genetic waste.
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Old 18-04-2015, 12:28   #38
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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that is a very simple answer, really. you are overthinking it. in modern 'western' society, we are increasingly taught to abhor personal success and welbeing; as if it's someow morally wrong to have things that you worked to earn and those that have little are morally superior. many people act as if we should apologize for what we have and deserve ill treatment because of it.

i say 'we' because i am a part of this society; not because i have much more than two pennies to rub together.

the answer is far more basic. fisherman turn to pirates because they have little and stealing from unprotected, unaware strangers is a far easier and faster way to accumulate wealth. it's pretty simple, really.

it's no different than the appeal selling illegal drugs has with America's 'underpriveledged'. quick easy money.
I don't agree with you. The ones that sell drugs are criminals not fishermen .
Normal people don't resource to criminal acts just to get more money. On the fishermen case probably there are some resentment feeling regarding rich men from other countries that are seen (justifiably or not) as oppressors and show their health on their doorstep.

Probably this has something to do with that resentment in what regards fishermen:

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...
Answering your comment above, that is no excuse for piracy, but perhaps could we aknowledge that "we" over fish "their" territorial waters.
"Our" floating fishing factories ( I dare not call these things fishing boats) harvest (I can't call it fishing) "their" fish.
Commercial fishing licence money vanishes into "their" corrupted gvts deep pockets.
..
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Old 18-04-2015, 12:35   #39
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
.Answering your comment above, that is no excuse for piracy, but perhaps could we aknowledge that "we" over fish "their" territorial waters.
"Our" floating fishing factories ( I dare not call these things fishing boats) harvest (I can't call it fishing) "their" fish.
Commercial fishing licence money vanishes into "their" corrupted gvts deep pockets.
That has been a sorry excuse by the Somali pirates, nothing to do with Haiti.
Those guys have been an independent nation for years, they just can't get their stuff together. Not that the earthquake helped any, but still, across the border, on the same island, they are doing much better.
Perhaps birth control and common sense would do wonders, but not holding my breath..
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Old 18-04-2015, 12:38   #40
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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really? far safer in the woods or in the countryside than in the city.
Yes. I don't live on US. Cities here have a very low criminality. Criminality has grown on assaults for robing on people that live isolated on the country side or in isolated places. Many of the assaults are done by immigrants from the East of Europe that had come to work some years ago and that due to the crisis don't have means of subsistence.

To give you an idea most of violent deaths on the country have to do with passionate crimes, honor crimes or family disputes. Very few are due to criminals.
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:01   #41
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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How many cities come to mind where it would be safe to sail up and drop the hook and sit at anchor for a few days? Singapore?
Geneva Stockholm, Arkangelsk, Yokohama.
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:39   #42
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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That has been a sorry excuse by the Somali pirates, nothing to do with Haiti.
Those guys have been an independent nation for years, they just can't get their stuff together. Not that the earthquake helped any, but still, across the border, on the same island, they are doing much better.
Perhaps birth control and common sense would do wonders, but not holding my breath..
You stated it better than I was going to do. It is amazing how one end of an island can be so different from the other?
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:45   #43
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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I'm just curious, but how does one put out a light to lure a sailor? I used to have the same question when I was a kid and heard the stories of wreckers etc. making fires on the beach to lure ships aground.

Do any of you guys sail TOWARD an unknown, uncharted light on shore?
I'm just curious as to the actual mechanics of these Mooncussers technique. I might be stranded on an island some day and need to lure some boats to me.
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Beer sign.

Or better yet:

Mark
Now that's funny!
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Old 18-04-2015, 13:52   #44
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

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I would say, it's not only simple but primitive! Intelligent people would rather think about a legal business, than the momentary gain from a questionable raid. At least they could alternatively earn much more money in the near future by building a relationship of trust. But this opportunity they have now missed forever.
Maybe from your standpoint but the reality is poverty and hunger drive eople to deserate means. Eventually it becomes a way of life past down from one generation to another. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. This country has never been educated and I remember was in poverty back in the 70's. So nothing changes if nothing changes.
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Old 18-04-2015, 16:19   #45
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Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

I haven't been near there since the early 80's. Back then even, it was best left at a good distance. These days I can't imagine the pressure cooker state of things.
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