Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-04-2015, 09:14   #151
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,765
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Wow. Absolutely nothing at all to do with the original post anymore, huh? Maybe we need a "Politics" forum around here for these kinds of silly arguments.
Who is talking about politics? We are talking about the "quality of the people" to be or not the main reason for the social deregulation in Haiti that many here have considered to be the main cause of attacks on foreign sailboats.

Do you think that has nothing to do with a sailboat attacked on Haiti and has to do with Politics? What Politics are you talking about?
__________________

Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 10:46   #152
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

I am interested if anyone who is reading the original post that started this thread about the couple who was viciously attacked in an anchorage has changed their own Point of View about how they intend to prepare for and possibly respond to unwanted intruders at an anchorage.

Anyone care to comment on that possible change of view or plan?

Obviously, one simple response is to avoid Haiti.

But, I am more interested if anyone has felt a need to change their own POV based on this case.
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 13:18   #153
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 183
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post

Anyone care to comment on that possible change of view or plan.

[...]

But, I am more interested if anyone has felt a need to change their own POV based on this case.
Benelli M90 "Trench sweeper".
(US Marine corps approved)

Ruger Super red hawk Alaskan
(100% Stainless)
454 Casull
__________________
Claude_Marie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 16:27   #154
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

I like the Ruger Alaskan but think a high capacity pistol would be better in this case. Two would be best. I like the Benelli too.
__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 16:51   #155
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,063
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
Benelli M90 "Trench sweeper".
(US Marine corps approved)

Ruger Super red hawk Alaskan
(100% Stainless)
454 Casull
Just an old Mossberg would do. 12ga. with a 22 inch barrel.

Becoming a gun thread?
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 17:51   #156
Registered User
 
first wind's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chesapeake bay area
Boat: 1971 cal 27
Posts: 419
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
So, you are still convinced that the social collapse on Haiti has not to do with the huge dimension of the natural catastrophe (proportionally incomparably bigger than anything that had happen on US) that hit them but with the lower "quality of the people"?
ok. i have only one more response because, if you don't get it, you don't get it. this is from an earlier post:

"I was down in Haiti in September, working in a private orphanage. I've spent a decent chunk of time in third world contries, and Haiti is different. There's a hopelessness there that has to be experienced firsthand, it can't be described.

I work as a first responder, and the place I was volunteering for is operated by an R.N. who was in the initial earthquake response. I don't think we were treated any better for it. There are so many various aid agencies in the country, no one would be able to tell anyway.

I would never take my wife there, nor my boat. I didn't even take a wristwatch, much less a phone or a computer. We hadn't been in the country an hour before we had our first "negotiations" while the other side brandished a shotgun.

It's just a different place, and I don't think normal third world type experiences translate. I feel very badly for this couple. Those are some very serious injuries for anyone, much more so for a more "seasoned" person. I wish them a speedy recovery.

JRM"

this was written by someone who went there to give aid. to help the unfortunates. good quality people don't accost those there to help them with violence. unless you think it's normal to threaten the life of someone there to help you. maybe that's how you, personally, respond to help.

so, your wife is suffering a massive heart attack and you threaten the ambulance crew with an ar15. right? perfectly normal behavior for any decent individual during a time of chrisis. i know that when i'm dealing with tragedy and disaster my first thought is to rob and threaten those who come to my aid.

and, you know, all over the world, people in need attack and rob those who come to rescue them. cut off the hand held out to help you. that's the way of civilized humans.
__________________
first wind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 17:53   #157
Registered User
 
first wind's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chesapeake bay area
Boat: 1971 cal 27
Posts: 419
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Just an old Mossberg would do. 12ga. with a 22 inch barrel.

Becoming a gun thread?
gun? heck with that. i want greek fire!

disclaimer: greek fire must be used against pirates before they board you. never use it against targets on your own vessel.
__________________
first wind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 17:57   #158
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

FWIW, I was in Haiti in the 1980's. It was a shothouse then. Its still a shothouse. The reasons are simple and undeniable. Poverty. Corruption. Ecological Rape. Overpopulation. And most importantly, Hopelessness.
__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 18:29   #159
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,765
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by first wind View Post
ok. i have only one more response because, if you don't get it, you don't get it. this is from an earlier post:
....
and, you know, all over the world, people in need attack and rob those who come to rescue them. cut off the hand held out to help you. that's the way of civilized humans.
Yes I have understood you clearly from the beginning: They get what deserve on Haiti, they are low quality people and that's the origin of their problems. You should think the money and international aid, including the one from US is just a waste.

Off course, I do not agree but that does not mean that I do not understand you.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2015, 20:17   #160
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

No such thing as low quality people.
We all try to make the best out of our situation and to improve our lifes.
Some are born into endless poverty and lifelong desperation.
In Haiti, and India a few years ago, there was no way out, no escape.
Expect for the desperate few who tried whatever to get away as they had nothing to loose.

No excuse for attacking cruisers, but the cruisers are the stupid ones for even getting close to Haiti or other desperate places. It is so naive and so stupid to anchor or cruise in those areas.
It is like throwing a bone in front of a starving dog.
Stay the hell away from those places.

Send Bill Clinton to Haiti, he has the talent and the charisma to turn the place around, slowly but surely.
There is no local talent there, the peons and the politicians are not capable of Governing themself. They have proved it over and over again. IQ, DNA, Culture, whatever you call it, they need help big time and right now. The proof is in the pudding, they are starving and beyond any reasonable hope. Haiti is hell on earth.
UN ought to send Bill Clinton there with a reasonable budget. Nothing to loose, it can not get any worse.
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 00:55   #161
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 183
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
I like the Ruger Alaskan but think a high capacity pistol would be better in this case. Two would be best. I like the Benelli too.
Two ??
Greedy
Benelli, Marines, Seals, SAS cannot be wrong.
Cerakote coating is really corrosion proof.
Same goes for the "Alaskan", professional outfitters, hunters, fishermen choice for close range bear defense.
Anything that can endure Alaska climate is good enough for the rest of world.
I would consider a Tokarev Siberian but that does not exist.



@ Cadence, a gun thread would not be a worse thread drift than discussing global " quality of the people" men, women and toddlers alike.
Btw, Benelli M4 super 90 is a 12Ga-18,5"
__________________
Claude_Marie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 05:07   #162
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,765
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
No such thing as low quality people.
We all try to make the best out of our situation and to improve our lifes.
Some are born into endless poverty and lifelong desperation.
In Haiti, and India a few years ago, there was no way out, no escape.
Expect for the desperate few who tried whatever to get away as they had nothing to loose.
...
I agree with you. The country is incredibly overcrowded and they have been struggling for years to have a democratic government and went out of dictatorship. The huge dimension of the 2004 natural tragedy disrupted social order and brought them back to a past they want to overcome. They need help to get on their feet again, to finish with criminal activity and to reestablish social order. That would be impossible while the absolute poverty and desperation remains as the only possibility.

They have a strong identity with a past history they can be proud off:

"Gaining its independence in 1804, Haiti was the first independent nation of Latin America and the Caribbean, the second republic successful in a war of independence against a European colonial power in the Americas, the only nation in the western hemisphere to have defeated three European superpowers (Britain, France, and Spain), and the only nation in the world established as a result of a successful slave revolt."

Haiti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 05:48   #163
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,584
Images: 240
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
... "Gaining its independence in 1804, Haiti was the first independent nation of Latin America and the Caribbean, the second republic successful in a war of independence against a European colonial power in the Americas, the only nation in the western hemisphere to have defeated three European superpowers (Britain, France, and Spain), and the only nation in the world established as a result of a successful slave revolt."
Haiti’s current economic crisis and political turmoil have their roots in the odious debt of 150 million gold francs (later reduced to 90 million) which France imposed on the newborn republic in 1825.

The debt was ten times Haiti‘s total 1825 revenue.

The sum was supposed to compensate French planters for their losses of slaves and property during Haiti’s 1791-1804 revolution, which gave birth to the world’s first slavery-free, and hence truly free, republic.

It is the only case in world history where the victor of a major war paid the loser reparations.

It took Haiti 122 years, until 1947, to pay off both the original ransom to France, and the tens of millions more in interest payments borrowed from French & American banks to meet the deadlines.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 10:10   #164
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claude_Marie View Post
Two ??
Greedy
Benelli, Marines, Seals, SAS cannot be wrong.
Cerakote coating is really corrosion proof.
Same goes for the "Alaskan", professional outfitters, hunters, fishermen choice for close range bear defense."
Love the Alaskan, but in this situation there were six pirates (not one bear) boarding the boat. Better to rapid fire at the group and watch them jump back in the water, where you can pick them off at your leisure.

Not certain about this, but I think the Alaskan wildlife rangers carry 12 guage riot guns for close in bear protection.
__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2015, 10:49   #165
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 183
Re: Haiti attack on Cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
Love the Alaskan, but in this situation there were six pirates (not one bear) boarding the boat. Better to rapid fire at the group and watch them jump back in the water, where you can pick them off at your leisure.

Not certain about this, but I think the Alaskan wildlife rangers carry 12 guage riot guns for close in bear protection.
I would not desagree on that, 2 back up solutions are better than one.
Maybe you can google Ruger S.A.R (Search and Rescue), used by Canadian SAR personnel, you might not like the colour though.

Looks like we are having our own quiet discussion (hope you appreciate that all Euro are not greensohialiststreehuggersgunsloathers)

I had a look what sort of velocity/energy you can expect from a "mid-weight" 454, quite impressive.(335gr - 1904 ft-lbf)
So that got me wondering....just close your eyes and figure out 3 skinnies standing in line in your companionway, that's about as thick as a bear....draw your own conclusion.
__________________

__________________
Claude_Marie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruise, cruiser, Haiti

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island MarkJ Atlantic & the Caribbean 444 29-01-2014 13:52
More on the recent attack on cruisers in Bocas Del Toro Garyosborne1 Atlantic & the Caribbean 23 24-07-2012 14:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.