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Old 26-03-2014, 16:18   #61
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Re: First time offshore

Mike,
UTC is "GMT" or "Zulu" time....
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmike View Post
Skipmac, GMT would be in Greenwich England, same time zone as Ireland, which is 4 to 5 hours ahead (they have not sprung forward yet so its 4 right now) of us on the East Coast. Correct?
It is ALWAYS the same time, no springing forward, nor falling back!!

It is based on the time at the prime meridian (0* longitude) and UTC is the official time used internationally for ALL:
a) Navigation (maritime, aviation, or on land)
b) Communications (radio, satellite, etc.)
c) Weather, Science, Engineering, etc.
d) Timing/Coordination/Scheduling of everything of any importance
etc. etc. etc...

The reason it is not abbreviated UCT, but rather is UTC, is this was a "favor" or "homage" to the French who were always a bit miffed that GMT was based in England...and French scientists had been using the term "Universel Temps Coordonne", so sometime many years ago the international scientific community decided on "UTC" as the abbreviation for Universal Coordinated Time....

But I myself, and everyone I know, just simply use "Zulu" when speaking...and the abbreviation z when writing the time...
Such as right now the time is 2218z.....


FYI, the use of z or UTC is so ubiquitous in everything maritime, etc. I'm surprised by this question...



I hope this clears things up...

John
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Old 26-03-2014, 17:10   #62
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Re: First time offshore

John, as I say, I'm a daysailer so this is new to me. I have been asked to figure out the frequencies and times for the SW radio... Here is my question, how is one to know what Zulu time/GMT is when WE set clocks ahead an hour in spring. In your example it was 6.18 EST and 22.18 GMT..which is a four hour difference. As you know, I am doing this sail really to learn as much as I can and improve in all areas, so the learning has started here on this thread and I am very grateful indeed.
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Old 26-03-2014, 17:29   #63
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Re: First time offshore

Irishmike, here is my 2c worth.
Most of the advice you have been given is good.

I am not familiar with this area, but the conditions (depression) in those charts are similar to what we have here in New Zealand. I have many blue-water miles behind me, and lived below 40 deg South for 40 years. I've been in conditions like those charted, and will be happy if it never happens again!

IMO a captain who does not check conditions very regularly in an area prone to depressions like that is irresponsible. If the vessel has not got equipment for obtaining weather forecasts, it should be fitted, or he should take his own.

It is of such great importance that I would NOT delegate this to a new, inexperienced crew member.

You state you are concerned, yet you know the captains well. Tell them your concerns, show them the weather charts above and ask them about the likelihood of encountering a storm like that. Ask them if they ever have. How were they planning to avoid one if it develops? (and how would they know) Ask them if you are caught, what will the storm tactics be, and what gear is carried (drouge, Para anchor etc).

If they cannot answer these issues in a clear and concise manner, I'd skip this trip. If they can (and they should be able to), then go!

I'm not saying they won't make it, but it could put you off water sailing">blue water sailing for life if it is not managed properly, which would be a shame!
Best of luck with your decision.

Time conversion is pretty straight forward. GMT, UTC etc is the base. Time zones are either + or -. For example here in NZ we are currently +13 (with DST). Find your local time zone and adjust accordingly..

Cheers
Matt
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Old 26-03-2014, 18:00   #64
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Re: First time offshore

Neptune's Gear thanks.....I will ask those questions and we are taking the weather radio with us. .....John, I understand the UTC...GMT will forward one hour this Sunday so then will be a 5 hour difference to EST>
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Old 26-03-2014, 18:32   #65
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Re: First time offshore

Several hundred boats will make that trip in April . Many of these guys do four or five trips each spring and fall . Go for it before these guys have you wearing a seat belt and motorcycle helmet .
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Old 26-03-2014, 18:48   #66
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Re: First time offshore

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmike View Post
Neptune's Gear thanks.....I will ask those questions and we are taking the weather radio with us. .....John, I understand the UTC...GMT will forward one hour this Sunday so then will be a 5 hour difference to EST>
I know you're learning and all that. But have you tried Google or wikipedia to figure this stuff out? Or a basic sailing book, Like Chapman's?

Sometimes part of the fun is doing your own research.

Have a safe journey.
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Old 26-03-2014, 18:59   #67
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Re: First time offshore

Quote:
Originally Posted by pistarckle View Post
Several hundred boats will make that trip in April . Many of these guys do four or five trips each spring and fall . Go for it before these guys have you wearing a seat belt and motorcycle helmet .
To be clear about my perspective, this trip can be about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. However, as someone who has been riding motorcycles for close to fifty years with and without helmets (and shoes) and is still around to talk about it, understanding risks and having strategies to mitigate them is key to enjoying an array of adventures. Nothing I have posted should be interpreted as an effort to discourage the OP. All of it should be interpreted as encouraging understanding the trip, the opportunities and the risks so that he is well prepared to enjoy an extraordinary experience.
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:35   #68
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Re: First time offshore

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Originally Posted by tartansail View Post
To be clear about my perspective, this trip can be about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. However, as someone who has been riding motorcycles for close to fifty years with and without helmets (and shoes) and is still around to talk about it, understanding risks and having strategies to mitigate them is key to enjoying an array of adventures. Nothing I have posted should be interpreted as an effort to discourage the OP. All of it should be interpreted as encouraging understanding the trip, the opportunities and the risks so that he is well prepared to enjoy an extraordinary experience.
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:48   #69
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Re: First time offshore

Mike,
Please forgive me for adding emphasis here, it is just emphasis to help clear up things, not me shouting...


UTC / GMT / Zulu never changes....NO Daylight Savings Time...NO "summer time", etc...
It is ALWAYS the same!!!!
(yes, every few years a "leap second" is added to the atomic clocks, etc. as the earths orbit and rotation is not exact, etc. BUT, other than that one added second, every few years, UTC time NEVER changes!!!)!
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmike View Post
John, I understand the UTC...GMT will forward one hour this Sunday so then will be a 5 hour difference to EST>
I have no idea where/who is informing you otherwise, but please take my word here, UTC/GMT/Zulu, NEVER changes!!!



I thought I was clear earlier, when I wrote this..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
UTC is "GMT" or "Zulu" time....It is ALWAYS the same time, no springing forward, nor falling back!!

It is based on the time at the prime meridian (0* longitude) and UTC is the official time used internationally for ALL:
a) Navigation (maritime, aviation, or on land)
b) Communications (radio, satellite, etc.)
c) Weather, Science, Engineering, etc.
d) Timing/Coordination/Scheduling of everything of any importance
etc. etc. etc...
But, to make it absolutely clear, I will repeat it again....UTC / GMT / Zulu never changes....NO Daylight Savings Time...NO "summer time", etc... It is ALWAYS the same!!!!




Further, your statement here is incorrect...
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmike View Post
In your example it was 6.18 EST and 22.18 GMT..which is a four hour difference.
6:18pm EDT is 2218z, 6:18pm EST is 2318z....remember we here in the US changed to DST a few weeks ago...
Perhaps you're starting to see why everyone uses UTC/Zulu!!!
Learn it, Love it, Live it!!!

The USCG HF Voice weather broadcast schedules are in Zulu time....
USCG HF Voice

You'll use the broadcasts from NMN in Chesapeake, VA; and maybe some from NMG, in New Orleans...



Forget trying to "convert" time, if you're given a schedule in Zulu, use Zulu time....and forget/ignore trying to "convert" things....I think you'll find it much less confusing...
What I mean here is that you'll use Zulu time on-board for everything, so why not just use it now to listen to the HF broadcasts!!
(Your friends/captains DO use Zulu time on-board, don't they???)




{Many countries, states, cities, etc. do observe "summer time" like most of the US does ("daylight savings time"), but UTC/GMT/Zulu NEVER changes...}



I hope this clears things up about UTC!!!

John
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:54   #70
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Re: First time offshore

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmike View Post
Neptune's Gear thanks.....I will ask those questions and we are taking the weather radio with us. .....John, I understand the UTC...GMT will forward one hour this Sunday so then will be a 5 hour difference to EST>
No, UTC/GMT/ Zulu Time never "forward" or "back" nor do any other designated "time zones".

What happens is that a lot of places in temperate regions change their designated time zone between summer and winter.

Eastern Standard Time or EST is always 5 hours behind GMT. I believe that in your area you change from EST to Eastern Daylight Time (EDT) in summer - which is 4 hours behind GMT.
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Old 26-03-2014, 21:05   #71
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Re: First time offshore

pistarckle,
Do you know of some "ghost fleet" that I'm not aware of???

Since April is VERY earlier for most boats heading from the BVI to Newport!!!
Yeah, a few will leave in late April...but most leave in May, and a few even waiting 'til June...(and many also plan a Bermuda stop-over, and only bypassing if the weather forecasts for waters north are good..)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pistarckle View Post
Several hundred boats will make that trip in April . Many of these guys do four or five trips each spring and fall . Go for it before these guys have you wearing a seat belt and motorcycle helmet .
I find your comments about a "seat belt and motorcycle helmet" puzzling???

Advising a fellow sailor (who ASKED for advice/clarifications) to listen to weather forecasts both before departure and enroute along a 1500nm offshore passage is good seamanship....as well as being prudent, and heck even just good common sense!!!

Perhaps you are one of those thrill-seekers that crave hurricane force winds, 40' seas, and freezing spray....but not me....(yes, that exact weather is what was out there, along the north end of this route for the past 24 hours!!)
If that makes me a wimp, so be it....
But, I stand firmly behind my advice/recommendations regarding weather forecasts, etc....



Fair winds..

John
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Old 26-03-2014, 21:08   #72
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Re: First time offshore

Stu,
You took the words right outa' my mouth!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
I know you're learning and all that. But have you tried Google or wikipedia to figure this stuff out? Or a basic sailing book, Like Chapman's?

Sometimes part of the fun is doing your own research.

Have a safe journey.
I agree here 100%...
Thanks for saying it!!!



Fair winds..

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 26-03-2014, 21:22   #73
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Re: First time offshore

I haven't done the exact trip but I have done Boston-Bermuda, Bermuda-USVI and Annapolis-Bermuda.

Those trips were with Loran, Sextant, RDF and VHF. Other seamen have done it successfully with less.

I don't see the problem of doing this trip on a well found boat with what you have.

I wonder how many of the naysayers have ventured beyond their electronics or their dreams?

It's getting kind of silly.
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Old 26-03-2014, 21:34   #74
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Re: First time offshore

Sailpower, just because something can be done, does it mean it should?

If you are an experienced sailor, (and it sounds like you are) and wish to go with the basics, feel free! Once there were no charts either, but it would be foolish to say they did not make voyages generally safer.

In this case professional seamen have been engaged to skipper the vessel, and are looking at taking a bluewater novice. They are responsible for him. Professionals have ALWAYS used every means available to them to make voyages a safe as possible, especially when committing others to a passage. IMO.
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Old 26-03-2014, 21:37   #75
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Re: First time offshore

Sailpower,
I'm not a "naysayer", and I didn't realize I had to post a cv every time I answer a question...
Quote:
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Those trips were with Loran, Sextant, RDF and VHF. Other seamen have done it successfully with less.
I wonder how many of the naysayers have ventured beyond their electronics or their dreams?

It's getting kind of silly.
Well, count me as one of those "other seamen" that have done it with less!!

My first offshore passages were as a kid in the 1960's wit just DR and an old RDF for approach.....my first Atlantic crossing as an adult (navigator) was in the 1970's with sextant and DR (well before the days of GPS), but I did have SSB radio ('cause I'm a radio nut...read some of my communications posts!)...on my more recent Atlantic crossings (on my current boat) I did use GPS, and wefax, BUT I STILL USE PAPER CHARTS!!!
Just modern seamanship (in my opinion!)...

Cruising and delivering to/from the Caribbean can be a fun, pleasurable trip....but I don't think it "silly" to recommend getting weather forecasts before departure and enroute (especially when the guy ASKED for recommendations/advice)...





Fair winds to 'ya sailpower...

John
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