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Old 02-12-2012, 20:52   #16
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

Can't you plead extenuating circumstances with the powers that be?

I mean if the mooring is that valuable can't you argue harsh and unconscionable on the contract?

Or that the "9 months" condition is unreasonable?

I mean, by the time they actually get round to throwing you off the mooring couldn't you have gone round the world a few times?

And are there not other moorings available on the river?

Or could you not request that one of the many desperate souls near the top of the wait list be allowed to use your mooring?

If it were me I'd have a chat with the Harbour Master (or whoever is in charge) and watch his body language as we talked.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:02   #17
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

I'm with David. I just can't imagine where you would find a delivery skipper who can help you with your time problem

Especially on this website
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:08   #18
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
I'm with David. I just can't imagine where you would find a delivery skipper who can help you with your time problem

Especially on this website
Perhaps some sort of man with a boat?

Thinking caps on...............
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:19   #19
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

Well David, I've looked at the CV's of most the members here.................

Apparently, only you and I have the required experience...............

Guess we're the winners
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:49   #20
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

Dockhead, not doable , as you already realise

1500 mile southampton to Las Palmas, you need to be clear of the Western approaches and biscay by end of Aug , early September, so three weeks is a good estimate , if you are delayed, even then its a push and youll miss some really nice places on the way ( Id suggest a detour to Maderia, V nice place)

with all the 'craic" in Las palmas, parties , briefings etc , you'd need to be there two weeks before the off. Id even suggest three weeks, ( theres usually a bit of repair after the trip south!!.

Allow 17- 20 days across ( OK thats a little slow for your boat),

Making you way north up the Caribbean chain can be slow in the face of the NE trades especially the christmas winds.

You then need to wait a bit as the early spring isnt cool going up the North to catch teh westerlies, Id say good crossing are May+ ( you know what our summers are like!!).

Technically you could do it in 9 months, but why?


Why dont you do UK-Med -UK , a nice 4-6 months.

Dave

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Old 03-12-2012, 06:35   #21
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Rigid schedules kill!
Ditto!

Trying to do this sort of thing on a strict time-table is as sure a way to get yourself into trouble as there is.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:38   #22
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Dockhead, not doable , as you already realise

1500 mile southampton to Las Palmas, you need to be clear of the Western approaches and biscay by end of Aug , early September, so three weeks is a good estimate , if you are delayed, even then its a push and youll miss some really nice places on the way ( Id suggest a detour to Maderia, V nice place)

with all the 'craic" in Las palmas, parties , briefings etc , you'd need to be there two weeks before the off. Id even suggest three weeks, ( theres usually a bit of repair after the trip south!!.

Allow 17- 20 days across ( OK thats a little slow for your boat),

Making you way north up the Caribbean chain can be slow in the face of the NE trades especially the christmas winds.

You then need to wait a bit as the early spring isnt cool going up the North to catch teh westerlies, Id say good crossing are May+ ( you know what our summers are like!!).

Technically you could do it in 9 months, but why?


Why dont you do UK-Med -UK , a nice 4-6 months.

Dave

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Bleh. Well, it would be a really big investment of a scarce resource -- free time -- and I wouldn't be able to do something like that again for a while. So I wouldn't want to take a big risk that it would not be fun, because of being all screwed up for time.

No way would I spend three weeks of extra time just to be in the ARC. Considering the foregoing, I guess if I decided to do something like this, I would take the boat to the Canaries middle of August. Wouldn't tell the nice harbormaster I'm gone until 1 September . Surely if the weather is decent I could make 1500 miles in 15 days??? Even if we take 6.4 knots suggested above, that's still 150 miles a day. Even allowing for a possible delay due to weather, surely I could get there by the end of August.

Then carry out any necessary repairs and put the boat on the hard (?) in the Canaries.

Then come back December 1, spend max a week provisioning and getting ready, then just go, screw the ARC. Surely I'll be there by Christmas. It's 2800 miles, and I really don't mind motoring when becalmed -- my boat motors very pleasantly, very quiet and smooth and economical, throttled back to 7 knots will make about 1.5nm per liter of fuel, so I have 800 - 900 miles of range.

Then Christmas to the end of January seems a perfectly nice winter cruise.

OK, so far so good. Surely this is realistic so far.

I guess the trouble starts with getting her home. 4000 miles and a stop in the Azores -- it means 27 days of sailing at my nominal 6.4 knot speed (surely I'll do better than that, but I guess planning should always be conservative). So that means an ideal passage home with no problems, no delays, no weather crap, is a month -- and here's the rub -- you can never plan on something being ideal, obviously. I could start the last week of April, which gives me 5 weeks. I guess if I were a week late, end of first week of June, the harbormaster would have mercy on me, that gives two weeks margin of error.

But even with 6 weeks to get home, it's probably still cutting it perhaps a bit too close I remember last year we were having horrendous gales in the UK that time of year.


Hmm, hmm, hmmm -- thinking out loud -- maybe instead of "Spring Break" in March, I could spend that time bringing the boat to the Azores. Horta from St. Martin is 2200 miles, so 2 weeks at nominal passage speed. I guess I could take off two weeks plus a couple of weekends in March to do that. Leave the boat in Horta. Then easily pick a weather window for the final stage.

I guess that would probably work, barring some ghastly long period of gales like we had last year. But the question remains -- why? A lot of hard passagemaking for only a relatively teeny bit of cruising. I guess if I decided to do it, it would exactly be for the sake of that passagemaking, that passagemaking as an ends in itself, and not merely a means to get to the Caribbean.

OK, guys, IF I do decide to do that despite the obvious common sense against it, there are seven bunks on my boat and I will surely need extra crew, so stay tuned. Preference will surely be given to CF friends! I like to have three good sailors besides myself, not counting any passengers, for a relaxed watch schedule and enjoyment along the way.


The Med doesn't really seem appealing, but I'm open to have my prejudices ripped apart if they deserve it. Nothing to do there in the winter time, so no point in going down in the fall. Hell of a long way there, and a hard uphill sail to get back -- isn't that right? Don't some sailors even come back to the UK from Gib via Azores?


If I don't live out my Caribbean cruising wet dreams (so to speak), I think I might go back to my Iceland trip plan which I had for this year, but which got scrubbed due to the weather. It won't make sense if the jetstream is misbehaving like it was last year.


To Don Lucas: Yes, of course, I could just go cruising locally -- that's what I've been doing for the last three years. You could spend a lifetime sailing in the English Channel and never get bored -- it's gorgeous here, amazingly so, with a great wealth of places to go and see, and great, challenging, often tough sailing. It won't be the end of the world, but I've having a fit of wanderlust and desire to put some miles under the keel, change of scene and climate.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:43   #23
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

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I don't have a clue about travel times but on the mooring you could always get a small junker hull and put a bilge pump and solar panel on it. Use it as a place holder until you get back.
What I was going to suggest
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:44   #24
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

Dockhead,

If you're gonna run with the above plan, you will ned to reserve a marina space in the canaries now. As you get closer to the ARC, everything will be booked. AS it is, you probably can't get a space in Palmas next year at the same time as the ARC.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:42   #25
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

Quote:
If you're gonna run with the above plan, you will ned to reserve a marina space in the canaries now. As you get closer to the ARC, everything will be booked. AS it is, you probably can't get a space in Palmas next year at the same time as the ARC.
No problem getting space in Las Palmas, after ARC leaves, I always feel the ARC leaves too soon anyway, often the trades are stable and you end up way south to find them. You could also use Santa Cruz on Tenerife, but the chandleries arnt as good and the marinas a bit of a heap. Puerto Calero on Lanza is also good, or for something cheaper, try Sam Sebastian de la Gomera, ( Provisions good, but light on boat hardware).


Dockhead, the trip south and east is fine, going North/Northeast can be difficult then lack of wind and then too much wind, often you have to jink north to catch some westerlies and run the risk of of a gale. Trying to get to the Azores in March runs the risk of hitting some very nasty weather.


As for the Med, if you havent been there , youve missed a lot. Yes it can be crowded, but theres plenty of space for everyone.

I love this one

Quote:
If I don't live out my Caribbean cruising wet dreams (so to speak), I think I might go back to my Iceland trip plan which I had for this year, but which got scrubbed due to the weather
and then your worried about this
Quote:
But even with 6 weeks to get home, it's probably still cutting it perhaps a bit too close I remember last year we were having horrendous gales in the UK that time of year.
only slagging. If you need advice on Iceland, let me know I have a contact that sailed there a few times ( and also to Antarctica!).

Dave
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:05   #26
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
No problem getting space in Las Palmas, after ARC leaves, I always feel the ARC leaves too soon anyway, often the trades are stable and you end up way south to find them. You could also use Santa Cruz on Tenerife, but the chandleries arnt as good and the marinas a bit of a heap. Puerto Calero on Lanza is also good, or for something cheaper, try Sam Sebastian de la Gomera, ( Provisions good, but light on boat hardware).


Dockhead, the trip south and east is fine, going North/Northeast can be difficult then lack of wind and then too much wind, often you have to jink north to catch some westerlies and run the risk of of a gale. Trying to get to the Azores in March runs the risk of hitting some very nasty weather.


As for the Med, if you havent been there , youve missed a lot. Yes it can be crowded, but theres plenty of space for everyone.

I love this one



and then your worried about this


only slagging. If you need advice on Iceland, let me know I have a contact that sailed there a few times ( and also to Antarctica!).

Dave
Ah, I've had detailed advice from no less than Evans Starzinger! Iceland sounds magical. And I guess if I add a couple of weeks to my customary month-long summer cruise, eminently do-able, provided the jet stream is behaving. Hmmmm.

As to the Med -- well, I know those coasts extremely well, at least from land. I've sailed a fair bit in the Eastern Med (blissfully, especially in Turkish waters), but not in the Western Med. But how would I do it from the UK? There in the spring, back in the fall? But I thought that it was June, July, August which is least pleasant there? I would be interested to hear of your suggested itineraries and timings.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:28   #27
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

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......
But I thought that it was June, July, August which is least pleasant there?
......
Several cruisers we have come across say that the summer months are simply too hot and crowded in the Med. Yes, some areas can be hot (Turkey particularly), and time ashore can be uncomfortably hot when the sun is high. On the other hand, time on the water at anchor is blissful under the shade of a boom tent and there are generally afternoon breezes cooling things down. Our experience in the Aegean is that if you avoid the charter areas, you frequently have anchorages to yourself. The swimming is the best in summer. It is certainly my favourite time of year in the Med, so don't dismiss the thought of summer here.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:17   #28
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

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Several cruisers we have come across say that the summer months are simply too hot and crowded in the Med. Yes, some areas can be hot (Turkey particularly), and time ashore can be uncomfortably hot when the sun is high. On the other hand, time on the water at anchor is blissful under the shade of a boom tent and there are generally afternoon breezes cooling things down. Our experience in the Aegean is that if you avoid the charter areas, you frequently have anchorages to yourself. The swimming is the best in summer. It is certainly my favourite time of year in the Med, so don't dismiss the thought of summer here.
I am not sensitive to heat having grown up in the sweltering SE part of the US. I have done a fair amount of sailing in the Aegean, and if I could tele-transport my boat there for a summer, would do it in a heartbeat. But I have to get to and from the UK in a certain amount of time in order not to lose my mooring. I think only the W Med might come under consideration.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:47   #29
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

a feasable winter cruise would be leaving the uk in early october,with a swift jump across biscay to the spanish rias,continue south to morocco,canaries in the new year,then the cape verde islands and senegal and gambia till march.
then azores to the uk in april -may.
lots of really nice places to stop,short hops and mostly warm weather,cheap and good connections if you need to fly home inbetween,7-8 months and about 5000 miles.
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Old 03-12-2012, 17:54   #30
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Re: Feasibility of an Atlantic Circuit on a very short Sabbatical?

Dockhead:

IMHO you need to decide whether you want to cruise or Passagemake (is that a word). I did the Baja Ha Ha in 2009 750 mile rally set up so that people who have two weeks vacation can enjoy it. I did not enjoy being on other people's schedules. The pace was too fast for me and there was not time to fix something (like my AP) if it should break. As my kids aged I couldn't yank them out of school anymore so winter vacations were out and Summer is the hurricane season in Mexico. The kids wanted to go to Spain so I started researching how to get my 41' boat across the country and across the Atlantic. It turned out it was going to cost a fair bit of time and $$$. It took me awhile but I gave up on that idea. I talked it over with the admiral and we decided to buy a small boat in the Med. We found a 10m long Wauqiez. Needed some work but very simple systems. I got it up and running in two weeks. Probably should have paid to have it done. The boat was in Italy. Italy was never on my top 10 list of places I wanted to go. Don't know why but it never made it there.

Now I love Italy. We have spent the last two summers in Italy. The kids love it. You can jump off the boat and go swimming at any time. The first year, in six weeks we travelled a total of 50 nm. There was too much to see. 10 nm or 12 nm and we would find a great place. The second year we spent 6 weeks again and did around 225nm. We sailed around Elba. We still felt that we had to move a little fast.

Why such small distances? There is so much to see.

We are going back this summer and going to spend the time in Corsica and Sardena. After the family leaves I have three good friends lined up to help me deliver the boat to . . . . France or Sicily or Greece. Or maybe just sail it around for awhile. There is a lot to see in the Med (and I imagine the Caribbean).

Given the amount of time that you have for holiday I would look at buying a second boat in the Med or the Caribbean. This will allow you to enjoy your boat at home for shorter trips. The admiral and I decided that the only thing that we could do wrong was to try and do too much.
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