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Old 30-03-2013, 17:44   #76
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
SNIP

Just think about this: many of us come from careers with education levels and salaries that don't even exist in many countries; don't think that they don't know that.
SNIP
Way back when I was just a whippersnapper in the 9th grade in 1960 living in Miami my Dad bought an Abaco schooner and my Mom and I flew to Marsh Harbor where I was to help him sail it back to Miami. Back then air service was provided by Macky (possible spelling error) and British Oversea Air Carrier shortened to BOAC but better known as Bring Over American Currency. My Mom was a typical medical doctor's wife and dressed well. She also had no problem being accepted even when women were less accepted than they are now.

So while I agree that Americans get paid more than folks in most countries and those folks know enough to not bite the hand that feeds them. I know all about rules concerning working and the permit stuff (I own a Seawind 1000 built in OZ and can not charter it in the US).

But I have to say what happened to Three Sheets is a black eye for the Bahamas. Sad to say a single guy who tried to strong arm the Three Sheets folks did things that come dangerously close to criminal actions in the US, and perhaps more to the point will probably wind up costing folks in the Bahamas that are completely innocent of any wrong doing.

While I would have simply got help from a small boat to tow me out of the harbor and sailed close to the Florida Coast and called a tow boat for the final few miles I can not fault what three sheets did. Lets remember they were following the advice of their insurance company. I know some folks think insurance companies are a rip off but my experience has been that if you do what your insurance company says the chances of getting paid are good, while if you simply sail off with no engines you may lose your coverage.

Bottom line is that the Bahamas need American tourists more than American tourists need the Bahamas and what happened to Three Sheets will make some boaters look long and hard at going to the Bahamas instead of another destination. The Florida Keys comes to mind as an attractive option.
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Old 30-03-2013, 21:00   #77
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The number of tourists in one cruise ship visit to Nassau along with one day's fly-ins is about 100 times the annual economic impact of all the yacht visits to that island for a year. Other islands appreciate the transient cruising traffic more. Nassau not so much.

Mark Twain wrote a book about this.
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Old 30-03-2013, 23:35   #78
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

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The number of tourists in one cruise ship visit to Nassau along with one day's fly-ins is about 100 times the annual economic impact of all the yacht visits to that island for a year. Other islands appreciate the transient cruising traffic more. Nassau not so much.

Mark Twain wrote a book about this.
Do you have any documentation to back this up.

I have seen lots of gripes about cruise ships not always helping out the local economy. Cruise ship tourists often go directly from the ship to a hotel often owned by the same company that owns the cruise ship. I would seriously doubt passengers from a cruise ship would buy a lot of food the way cruisers do, same goes for things like gas, water, and stuff from local shops. Same goes for things like marinas and yards that smaller boats help out while a large cruise ship would not be likely to help out the locals.

I don't have any real numbers about how cruise ships verses private cruisers affect the local economy, but I could see it going either way.
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Old 31-03-2013, 00:07   #79
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

Good luck, Jennifer and Mike, and I hope you are able to focus on getting your boat back in operation and find friendlier receptions elsewhere.
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Old 31-03-2013, 04:50   #80
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

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I'm always amused at how people so easily slip into nasty comments online. It's easy to do when one makes assumptions about an individual and can so easily hide behind the anonymity of the internet when making such mean-spirited retorts. I knew it would happen here so Captain Dana, thanks for the laugh!
Obviously with your attempt to denigrate the name of the Bahamas in general as payback you were bound to get some blowback.

What you get online is more honesty. Some folks can cope with that - others not. In any event, whether in real world or online if you start an argument then you have to be prepared to accept some incoming - using whatever method the medium of argument permits (typing, words or fists).

In regard to your tale, seems to me to be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other . Sure the Bahamas tow boat operator was playing hardball, but he stuck to using the local rules (and Bahamas far from alone in having rules that favour the locals in business) - albeit augmented by plenty of BS and knowing his way around local officialdom better than you. But I doubt he was seeing you as potential repeat business!, so no business sense in going down the "have a nice day" route .

I am sure both he and others locally (including officialdom) are well used to visitors (especially from their closest large neighbours?) thinking they can do WTF they want simply because it is conveniant for them, and that as much down to the US insurers and towboat operation as you for getting off on the wrong foot (maybe they didn't know that the Bahamas was not in the US? or simply didn't understand what that might mean - or care?). Simple answer is to find out what the rules are before doing things - I have never been to the Bahamas but seems pretty obvious that bringing in a business / workers would require at least some paperwork / permission in any country - certainly would in the US! Could have been worse, could have got locked up for bringing in illegal workers.........

I appreciate that stamping foot online probably feels good, but gotta look honestly from the other side - others will be / are!
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Old 31-03-2013, 05:33   #81
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Do you have any documentation to back this up.

I have seen lots of gripes about cruise ships not always helping out the local economy. Cruise ship tourists often go directly from the ship to a hotel often owned by the same company that owns the cruise ship. I would seriously doubt passengers from a cruise ship would buy a lot of food the way cruisers do, same goes for things like gas, water, and stuff from local shops. Same goes for things like marinas and yards that smaller boats help out while a large cruise ship would not be likely to help out the locals.

I don't have any real numbers about how cruise ships verses private cruisers affect the local economy, but I could see it going either way.

As it turns out, I was being conservative. I was operating from personal observations of the comings and goings on Nassau during visits made there in the 1980s. The data shows that these days, the factor of 100 cited earlier is way low.

From tourismtoday.com:

The 2012 figures for Nassau/Paradise Island were:

2,224,315 arrived by cruise ship
1,052,175 arrived by air
8,445 arrived by boat

That would suggest that on any given day at the Straw Market, a cruising couple and 800 other visitors from the airport and cruise liners will be shopping. One other fact is that the hotels in the Bahamas are government-owned by Hotel Corp (thousands of jobs) So, yes, there is plenty of documentation to back this up.

The gripes about cruise ships not helping the economy may be justified in Jamaica and other nations with lots of 'All Inclusive' cruise-line owned resorts. Grand Bahama Island is a bit like that.

My point is that we cruisers should be mindful that we are not a big deal anywhere we go. We are guests whenever we're in a foreign port and like it or not, we are representatives of The United States. We should always strive to be gracious and leave a clean wake for the next American.

Dana Paterson
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Hailing Port: Patuxent River, MD
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Old 31-03-2013, 06:29   #82
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

Here’s an interesting & informative study on the (very large) impact of cruise tourism on local economies.

http://www.f-cca.com/downloads/2012-...ysis-vol-1.pdf
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Old 31-03-2013, 07:11   #83
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Good stuff Gord! Cruise Liners pretty much drive many economies in the Carib.
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Old 31-03-2013, 07:30   #84
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- When dealing with officials, shower, shave, long pants, sleeved shirts, long skirt/dress, sunglasses off, real shoes, no flipflops etc. etc. If you don't, you have already insulted them in many cases and it will end in disaster. I have seen this escalate into immediate deportation.
One thing I keep on hearing is: if you have small children, take them with you when you go and see foreign officials. (I don't have children, but know where I could borrow some...)
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Old 31-03-2013, 07:44   #85
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

I don't understand why Americans have to put up with this kind of nonsense from tin pot countries on our own doorstep. We should just take 'em over and introduce proper government that would clear out all the little dictators one finds in third world officialdom. I find it outrageous that such pretty little islands don't belong to us, who could possibly be better stewards?
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Old 31-03-2013, 07:47   #86
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

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I don't understand why Americans have to put up with this kind of nonsense from tin pot countries on our own doorstep. We should just take 'em over and introduce proper government that would clear out all the little dictators one finds in third world officialdom. I find it outrageous that such pretty little islands don't belong to us, who could possibly be better stewards?
Indeed.
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Old 31-03-2013, 07:51   #87
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

All the more reason for an American to sail the thousands and thousands of miles of American waters.

Different country . . . different laws . . . different "rules" . . . different viewpoints . . . different.

Nothing worse than getting caught up in and screwed by local peculiarities.
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Old 31-03-2013, 07:55   #88
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

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Obviously with your attempt to denigrate the name of the Bahamas in general as payback you were bound to get some blowback.


SNIP
I am not sure where there was an attempt to denigrate the name of the Bahamas. There was a clear attempt to point out a single named tow service guy seemed to be getting inside information from perhaps one or more customs guys and the two service guy may have misrepresented himself as being more of an official and less than a private person. But it was also noted that several other folks in the Bahamas were good actors.

As a side note I would also point out that the BREA Cruise Analysis report linked to elsewhere showed a serious drop in total revenue for the Bahamas from 2009 to 2012. It looks like the old ditty about "when America sneezes the rest of the world catches cold" is true. There was also a lot of other interesting stuff in that report.
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Old 31-03-2013, 07:58   #89
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All the more reason for an American to sail the thousands and thousands of miles of American waters.

Different country . . . different laws . . . different "rules" . . . different viewpoints . . . different.

Nothing worse than getting caught up in and screwed by local peculiarities.
If that would have been the view of human kind we would still be in caves! Go out there! Open yourself to different cultures! All it requires is respect and tolerance of others and their ways, which once came with every one of us humans...
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Old 31-03-2013, 08:02   #90
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Re: Extortion in Nassau

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As it turns out, I was being conservative. SNIP
The BREA report does show cruise ships dominate the economy in the Bahamas.

On the other hand there are lots of places (and they are the places where I go) that you seldom or never see a cruise ship. Lets say I leave from Anglefish to Bimini and anchor in Nixon Harbor to check in, head to West Bay and avoid Nassau, then to Chub, the Berrys, and either South to Gerogetown or North to Green Turtle. How many cruise ships do you think I would see.

Not to say Nassau, the casinos on Grand Bahama, and perhaps the day boats to Bimini don't draw a lot of US dollars, but a lot of cruisers avoid those places and the places they do stop never see any of the cruise ship dollars.
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