Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by BlueBuddha

Come on people! Let's not insult liberal governments by saying that Venezuela is a leftist government. Venezuela is a failed dictatorship of wealthy corrupt psychopaths and military men who have stolen billions of oil revenues by selling the poor the idea that if only the USA stopped trying to invade the country they would be able to have food on the table. Venezuela is the only oil producing country that did not improve its economy during the oil bonanza of the late 90s and 2000s. It is the only country in South America that did not improve its economy during the last 10 years, despite having the largest oil reserves outside the middle east. Name any index of quality of life (crime, inflation, poverty, education, purchasing power, currency strength, independence of powers, corruption, food production, etc etc etc) and Venezuela will be dead last with some of the worst failed states on earth. Chavismo is an indefensible ideology that destroyed that beautiful country.

PS, I grew up there. My parents still live there. They are in their late 70s and now stand in line for 6+ hours every week to buy food or something as simple as two rolls of toilet paper.

You know first hand the demise of your once beautiful country. You are wrong in saying however it is not because of leftwing policy that the country has descended into economic ruin. It IS because of the leftwing socialist policies implemented by Chafes and now followed by the un educated idiot leader they have today. They followed the communist revolutionary model of Castro and guess what, they ruined the country just the same as the Communists of Cuba did.

It is leftwing socialist policies that have ruined Venezuela and I see other leftwing SA states going down the same path. Shortages are now even showing up in Argentina where you have a cocaine abusing megalomaniac women President who's political machine was bankrolled from Chávez Venezuelan money. And who has been trying to turn Argentina into her own version of Venezuela. Before I left Buenos Aires a few days ago they had run out of the equivalent of Tylenol. Not a tablet available anywhere in the country. Her socialist leftwing import controls are following the same disastrous path of Venezuela.

State controlled or Oligarchical controlled economies do not work. Free capitalist markets do.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

You know first hand the demise of your once beautiful country. You are wrong in saying however it is not because of leftwing policy that the country has descended into economic ruin. It IS because of the leftwing socialist policies implemented by Chafes and now followed by the un educated idiot leader they have today. They followed the communist revolutionary model of Castro and guess what, they ruined the country just the same as the Communists of Cuba did.

It is leftwing socialist policies that have ruined Venezuela and I see other leftwing SA states going down the same path. Shortages are now even showing up in Argentina where you have a cocaine abusing megalomaniac women President who's political machine was bankrolled from Chávez Venezuelan money. And who has been trying to turn Argentina into her own version of Venezuela. Before I left Buenos Aires a few days ago they had run out of the equivalent of Tylenol. Not a tablet available anywhere in the country. Her socialist leftwing import controls are following the same disastrous path of Venezuela.

State controlled or Oligarchical controlled economies do not work. Free capitalist markets do.

I think never extremes do. The recession brought on by profligate bankers is evidence of that.

A middle path is the best ,if that can be managed.

I loosing the will to live reading this thread

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by dpons

Nonsense. The "example" of independent (from her) judiciary is the recently deceased Nisman (suicide), who in 10 years of investigating anti-Israel terrorism attacks didn't make the case for a single conviction.

You believe all the crap put out by the Clarín Group (press and TV), which has a huge economic interest in see her fail. You assign to her an incredible power, not attainable in a country of huge egos such as Argentina.

The truth is that since the 70's Argentina is a political mess and the last few governments have rescued it from the economic abyss. Of course, the rich are paying more taxes and the poor are receiving social services. The rich hate that, and the lower middle class and the poor vote for her. Suck it up, that's democracy.

Just to make the post CF-worthy , I'm sailing soon up river along the Argentinian border. No fear of any kind of attacks, maybe petty theft if I leave the boat open for a week in a marina, but that would be careless.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by dpons

Nonsense. The "example" of independent (from her) judiciary is the recently deceased Nisman (suicide), who in 10 years of investigating anti-Israel terrorism attacks didn't make the case for a single conviction.

The Federal Prosecutor Nisman, did not commit suicide. The day before he was to present an indictment against the President as well as showung that the Government covered up the terrorist bombing in Buenos Aures by Iranian agents, was assassinated. Shot in the middle of the front of his head (not at the side as one would find in a suicide) but the front of the head between the eyes. Something that is a physically very difficult if not impossible for a self inflicted shooting given the gun that was used. The Government appointed Prosecutor who immediately came to the murder scene is a known party apparatchik. The moment the report came out that NO gun residue was found on Nisman's hands by the forensic Doctor, this Government appointed investigator said immediately that "No gun residue is found in most cases of self inflicted gun shootings". This is of course a lie. The truth is that in the vast majority of cases where a person fires a handgun gun powder residue IS found on the shooters firing hand. NO GUNSHOT POWDER was found on murdered Nisman's hands. So stop and think for a minute. Ask yourself why would a so called intelligent investigator rush out to make a deliberate misleading statement on a critical piece of forensic evidence. The Government appointed investigator has already been caught out I'm misleading the public. She can not be trusted.

The anti Israel attack you referred to was in fact an anti Jewish attack. People blown up in the heart of Buenos Aires at a Jewish community centre. It was not an attack on the Israeli embassy it was a terrorist bombing on Jewish men, women and children that killed and maimed civilians. Nisman along with Argentinian Security Police discovered that Iran was behind the bombing. And further he was about to present evidence that the Argentinian Government had decided not to charge the Iranian's involved because of commercial relationships between Iran and Argentina.

The case for this cover up of the bombing is well documented.

Christina has admitted that Nisman probably didn't kill himself.

Of course she has to say this given the absurdity of saying a man who supposedly shot himself point blank in the front of the head did so without leaving any gun residue on his hands.

It never ceases to amaze me though how gullible the left wing masses are.

Yes most of the poorly educated would swallow this but guess what. There are educated people who can think for themselves and not just accept spoon feed Government propaganda.

You believe all the crap put out by the Clarín Group (press and TV), which has a huge economic interest in see her fail. You assign to her an incredible power, not attainable in a country of huge egos such as Argentina.

I'm not following what is put out in the media. My sources are better than that. Also what I have said above is fact.

The truth is that since the 70's Argentina is a political mess and the last few governments have rescued it from the economic abyss.

ROTFL. Are you serious or just being a comedian?

Argentina has a 25% to 30% inflation rate. Import restrictions make it impossible to set up new manufacturing. I myself abandoned setting up a manufacturing plant due to the restrictions, red tape and outright corruption.

The Argentinian Peso has fallen in 18 months from 4 Pesos to the dollar to over 8 pesos to the dollar. And it is still falling. The unofficial rate is 12 to 13 Pesos to the dollar. Real farm output is falling and it's biggest export which is now Soy beans is falling in price and it's largest buyer, China is falling behind in its payments.

So please tell me what Christina has saved Argentina from. Argentina needs to be saved from her.

Of course, the rich are paying more taxes and the poor are receiving social services. The rich hate that, and the lower middle class and the poor vote for her. Suck it up, that's democracy.

What nonsense. Yes taxes have gone up. Not just for the "rich" but for all of the productive class. So much so that those with money either aren't putting it to work or have taken it out of the country.

This is what the socialists don't get. Tax the productive class to where it hurts and they move their money elsewhere. The country looses in lower production and ultimately even less tax income and the workers have less jobs.

Kirchnerites like their idol Peron have only continued the Peronista ruination of Argentina.

Her democracy is stealing from the productive in society and giving to the beer drinking lazy non working class who she depends on for votes. So much for democracy. Democracy has been used by tyrants for centuries. Even Hitler was voted in democratically.

Just to make the post CF-worthy , I'm sailing soon up river along the Argentinian border. No fear of any kind of attacks, maybe petty theft if I leave the boat open for a week in a marina, but that would be careless.

Who are you trying to kid. I've been mugged 3 times in Buenos Aires in the middle of the day. Attempted car jacked by 4 Glock wielding guys just outside the Capital. And when I walk near my home in one of the safest parts of town I leave my watch at home along with my rings etc.

[dpons]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

What the SA govs. have done is fall hook line and sinker for what has got them to where they are now..Its what happens from this moment own ward that matters..Some have taken the lessons taught/learned to places like Burma(Myanmar)/Cuba and learned from it ,others are just as obstinate as they have always been and will soon learn what sticking to that course of action or inaction will bring them..If you think that those in power in several S. American country's are going to persaver that is your proragative,i feel that you will soon learn differently..These countrys all have something in common with there "leaders"(literally) Cancer!! I guess you will (try to)rain on that parade also but it is fact! I have no romantic notions nor contempt for any of these places,just facts..I wish them all well in the future,but near term there will be many problems and all that you think that they have done in a positive manner will soon crumble, from the rotten edifice to the shaky foundations built upon sand ...My "assertions"are all very well informed, soon you to will realize that to be true..

Sorry, I'd love to answer but I can't decrypt what you wrote. Seems like a lot of opinions w/o any facts.

[dpons]

Originally Posted by BlueBuddha

Venezuela is a failed dictatorship

Well, must be a democratic dictatorship then, because the government party there won all the (free and audited) elections since 2000 to this day.

[dpons]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

No real risk of getting your boat ratted in a BAs marina* as they are gated communities. Serious high risk of getting mugged, rolled, carjacked etc etc when you leave the marina though, even the office girls in the Prefectura carry side arms. Most smaller shops need you to 'knock three times' before they will unlock the door...

* The exception makes the rule... a lot of boats were broken into when I was at a S Fernando marina but it was an inside job... the 'boat boy' off a local boat.
I don't think they can help themselves... what was it that ex Pres Batlle said a while back ? Anibal Fernandez calls Uruguayan former president Batlle a 'gorilla' — MercoPress

I'll be in the Uruguayan side: Colonia up to Paysandú. I hope go and come down before it gets cold, one leg (about 10 hours) each weekend, but the boat is not ready yet.

Generally, petty theft in the area is an inside job. A couple of years ago the caught a guard with the stolen goods in a small anchorage.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by dpons

Well, must be a democratic dictatorship then, because the government party there won all the (free and audited) elections since 2000 to this day.

Not entirely free .... it cost the K's quite a few pesos bribing the voters in the villa miserias... and that *is* documented but I'll leave you to do your own research.

[dpons]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

... in Argentina where you have a cocaine abusing megalomaniac women President who's political machine was bankrolled from Chávez Venezuelan money...

That's slander and a pack of lies, not a single shred of truth and you know it. Apply for a job with Murdoch, you fit the profile.

[El Pinguino]

I thought it was the daughter who had the cocaine habit.....
Lithium is what keeps KFC in control of herself, just as well they have plenty of it.

Hillary Clinton questions Cristina Kirchner's mental health | US news | The Guardian

Never been mugged in BA but less than 10 minutes into our first run ashore from downtown YCA, broad daylight, someone unsuccesfully tried the old stinky **** in the water pistol trick on a pair of us.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by dpons

Well, must be a democratic dictatorship then, because the government party there won all the (free and audited) elections since 2000 to this day.

Yes the Communists love elections. Stalin always won the popular vote even while he was murdering millions of his own people. Cuban elections are just a wonderful illustration of the will of the people. And Venezuela is a paradigm of democracy. I don't think.

Your so called free and "audited" elections, are you kidding. The auditors of the latest election were the communist Venezuelan party goons. What a joke. The election was rigged from one end of the country to the other.

Or I could be wrong. Of course the population of Venezuela enjoy electing a Government that has so ruined the country that toilet paper and toothpaste is as rare as gold. Who needs such things anyway.

Be careful in Brazil and I would say stay away from Venezuela. If you have a US passport now you don't have a choice. You now have to apply for a visa from a Venezuelan Consulate to be allowed in even by boat. And sailing in Venezuelan waters for a US passport holder without a visa is inviting the thieving Venezuelan Government to seize/take your boat and arrest you.

Viva the Latino revolution but expect to wipe your arse with your hands.

[dpons]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

The Federal Prosecutor Nisman, did not commit suicide. The day before he was to present an indictment against the President as well as showung that the Government covered up the terrorist bombing in Buenos Aures by Iranian agents, was assassinated. Shot in the middle of the front of his head (not at the side as one would find in a suicide) but the front of the head between the eyes. Something that is a physically very difficult if not impossible for a self inflicted shooting given the gun that was used. The Government appointed Prosecutor who immediately came to the murder scene is a known party apparatchik. The moment the report came out that NO gun residue was found on Nisman's hands by the forensic Doctor, this Government appointed investigator said immediately that "No gun residue is found in most cases of self inflicted gun shootings". This is of course a lie. The truth is that in the vast majority of cases where a person fires a handgun gun powder residue IS found on the shooters firing hand. NO GUNSHOT POWDER was found on murdered Nisman's hands. So stop and think for a minute. Ask yourself why would a so called intelligent investigator rush out to make a deliberate misleading statement on a critical piece of forensic evidence. The Government appointed investigator has already been caught out I'm misleading the public. She can not be trusted.

The anti Israel attack you referred to was in fact an anti Jewish attack. People blown up in the heart of Buenos Aires at a Jewish community centre. It was not an attack on the Israeli embassy it was a terrorist bombing on Jewish men, women and children that killed and maimed civilians. Nisman along with Argentinian Security Police discovered that Iran was behind the bombing. And further he was about to present evidence that the Argentinian Government had decided not to charge the Iranian's involved because of commercial relationships between Iran and Argentina.

The case for this cover up of the bombing is well documented.

Christina has admitted that Nisman probably didn't kill himself.

Of course she has to say this given the absurdity of saying a man who supposedly shot himself point blank in the front of the head did so without leaving any gun residue on his hands.

It never ceases to amaze me though how gullible the left wing masses are.

Yes most of the poorly educated would swallow this but guess what. There are educated people who can think for themselves and not just accept spoon feed Government propaganda.



I'm not following what is put out in the media. My sources are better than that. Also what I have said above is fact.



ROTFL. Are you serious or just being a comedian?

Argentina has a 25% to 30% inflation rate. Import restrictions make it impossible to set up new manufacturing. I myself abandoned setting up a manufacturing plant due to the restrictions, red tape and outright corruption.

The Argentinian Peso has fallen in 18 months from 4 Pesos to the dollar to over 8 pesos to the dollar. And it is still falling. The unofficial rate is 12 to 13 Pesos to the dollar. Real farm output is falling and it's biggest export which is now Soy beans is falling in price and it's largest buyer, China is falling behind in its payments.

So please tell me what Christina has saved Argentina from. Argentina needs to be saved from her.



What nonsense. Yes taxes have gone up. Not just for the "rich" but for all of the productive class. So much so that those with money either aren't putting it to work or have taken it out of the country.

This is what the socialists don't get. Tax the productive class to where it hurts and they move their money elsewhere. The country looses in lower production and ultimately even less tax income and the workers have less jobs.

Kirchnerites like their idol Peron have only continued the Peronista ruination of Argentina.

Her democracy is stealing from the productive in society and giving to the beer drinking lazy non working class who she depends on for votes. So much for democracy. Democracy has been used by tyrants for centuries. Even Hitler was voted in democratically.



Who are you trying to kid. I've been mugged 3 times in Buenos Aires in the middle of the day. Attempted car jacked by 4 Glock wielding guys just outside the Capital. And when I walk near my home in one of the safest parts of town I leave my watch at home along with my rings etc.

Listen, I don't give a rat ass about Argentina and its government, In Uruguay we don't like the Argentinian government too much, it's a constant annoyance to us. But I'm well informed and I hate political lies.

You are parroting the right wing BS from Clarín about Nisman and about the government, and you know that's dishonest. It's OK to say you don't want taxes there, or that you don't like the policies, but you are repeating lies.

BTW, I've been in downtown Buenos Aires, downtown Caracas, NYC, Southe Central LA, Chicago south side, etc and I've never been mugged in my life. You are doing something wrong.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by dpons

Sorry, I'd love to answer but I can't decrypt what you wrote. Seems like a lot of opinions w/o any facts.

Come on you are intelligent enough to read that,you just cant argue with it..It takes time for some facts to"smack you in the head"..Time will tell...

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

Yes the Communists love elections. Stalin always won the popular vote even while he was murdering millions of his own people.

Stalin's favorite quote about the elections was: "It is not how many people vote for which candidate but who is counting the votes". Wish our own voters realized that during the 2000 Presidential election vote tally which at critical toss up districts was counted by no receipt Dibauld voting machines whose manufacturer was a huge Bush-Dubbya supporter. And we all know how that election went.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by dpons

Listen, I don't give a rat ass about Argentina and its government, In Uruguay we don't like the Argentinian government too much, it's a constant annoyance to us. But I'm well informed and I hate political lies.

You are parroting the right wing BS from Clarín about Nisman and about the government, and you know that's dishonest. It's OK to say you don't want taxes there, or that you don't like the policies, but you are repeating lies.

BTW, I've been in downtown Buenos Aires, downtown Caracas, NYC, South Central LA, Chicago south side, etc and I've never been mugged in my life. You are doing something wrong.

What he is doing wrong is(not mine but maybe your opinion is) ,not working for the propaganda machine of the leftist welfare state that you seem to support..I once worked with a fella from Venezuela (he was a stock broker)as a flooring contractor..He rode my ass hard and complained about any and everything..I finally had enough of his stuff so I told him that he was a "little Napolian" ,he stuck his hand behind his lapel and stood there with a smirk and stated that he was disappointed!! He said it would have been a better complement had I called him Hitler!! I made it a point to observe any and all that I met from his part of the world since and not all but a lot of the ones I have met admire such scum as Hitler ,Mussolini,Castro,even one stated that he was good friends with Papa Doc and said that his son baby Doc was going down in history as a "great leader" there is something wrong from the top down in people that think like that IMO..