Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

[ParadiseParrot]

Hate to hijack a nice weapon thread but this guy died from lack of situational awareness.
No weapon would have saved him. Similar incident happened several years ago and the dead boat owner DID have a gun. Going out to sea and hoving too would have been a more prudent move than anchoring off a slum

[Therapy]

Having seen years and years of threads here and recently going through the AED -onboard thread and knowing the statistics behind THAT thing ever being used AND it being effective AND ending up with a person able to get on a boat again at some future date, I think this would be more prudent to have aboard.

No batteries, less instruction needed and if reading threads for umpteen years is any indication, it will be needed far more often than an AED.

If someone had this the guy might have survived. Certainly as good or better a chance than an AED.


How A Simple New Invention Seals A Gunshot Wound In 15 Seconds | Popular Science

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by ParadiseParrot

Hate to hijack a nice weapon thread but this guy died from lack of situational awareness.
No weapon would have saved him. Similar incident happened several years ago and the dead boat owner DID have a gun. Going out to sea and hoving too would have been a more prudent move than anchoring off a slum

In a socialist/communist run country all places are a slum..He would have had the same problems if he had dropped anchor in front of Maduros palace..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

In a socialist/communist run country all places are a slum..He would have had the same problems if he had dropped anchor in front of Maduros palace..

Shoot Yeah.. parts of NJ terrified me...

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Having seen years and years of threads here and recently going through the AED -onboard thread and knowing the statistics behind THAT thing ever being used AND it being effective AND ending up with a person able to get on a boat again at some future date, I think this would be more prudent to have aboard.

No batteries, less instruction needed and if reading threads for umpteen years is any indication, it will be needed far more often than an AED.

If someone had this the guy might have survived. Certainly as good or better a chance than an AED.


How A Simple New Invention Seals A Gunshot Wound In 15 Seconds | Popular Science

That's pretty cool. I always carried Israeli bandages on my boat (because that's what we were issued to carry for traumatic gun shot first aid and I had a bunch of them left when I retired). But, this looks even better.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

In a socialist/communist run country all places are a slum..He would have had the same problems if he had dropped anchor in front of Maduros palace..

I've been to several places characterised as such, most were not slums, In fact I would go as far to say that irrespective of left or right wing in power, such places that are slums will always be so.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I've been to several places characterised as such, most were not slums, In fact I would go as far to say that irrespective of left or right wing in power, such places that are slums will always be so.

I remember standing on 142nd st in Harlem(NY) in the 1980s and I can say that the place is not the same today as it was then ..I dismiss all communistic and socialistic (including Simon Bolivar type systems)govs. as slums from the top down..The very thought of giving equally to all(regradless of ability or station in life that they were born under) is repugnant and incomprehensible to me...I have no problem helping anyone but when they look at it as if it were a right I have a problem...They all live in slums when they stand with their hands extended saying "what have you done for me lately"...

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

In a socialist/communist run country all places are a slum..He would have had the same problems if he had dropped anchor in front of Maduros palace..

Funny, but I've rarely felt safer anywhere, than while cruising in Cuba...

:-)





'Security' while hanging out in Baracoa's dilapidated harbor was FAR less of a concern than when anchored off Gloria Estefan's $30 million home on Star Island, for instance...

[Island Time O25]

From the late 80s to early 2000s I have visited Venezuela quite often, although not by boat. And believe that the general populace's attitude toward foreigners has a lot to do with the willingness of the local/national gov't to instill into local population a good deal of fear of reprisal in case foreigners/tourists are molested. And suprisingly it worked. We were on the verge of being assaulted, by drunk local cops no less, when a manager of a nearby restaurant flagged down a Jeep full of "federales" (their national guard of sorts) and they proceeded to almost pistol whip the local cop in charge. After that incident we could walk anywhere anytime.

Haven't been there in almost 15 years but I would bet that their anti-American, anti-Western, anti-rich boaters attitudes are coming down from the top and are allowed to fester. Probably same in Brazil or any other 3rd World country. In those places most of the populace just goes with the flow. If it's a taboo to bother toursits they won't bother. If it's tolerated they will rob and steal at 1st opportunity. Same attitudes were behind the Iron Curtain way back.

Many times it is difficult to escape the label of "rich foreigner". Especially if you order a part which costs 2-3 months salary of the local marine mechanic when he would've gladly "repaired" or even manufactured your old part for 1/10 of the new part's cost. In such an economy you're already "rich" if you can afford such a mechanic never mind affording a new part shipped in from abroad.

I recall reading about unscrupulous NYC cab drivers in the 80s in JFK who would pick up arriving passengers off of Saudi Arabia or Japan flight going to a domestic terminal and charging them $800 when the meter showed $8.00. Same idea but without the visible slums.

[Saltyhog]

Originally Posted by Group9

That's pretty cool. I always carried Israeli bandages on my boat (because that's what we were issued to carry for traumatic gun shot first aid and I had a bunch of them left when I retired). But, this looks even better.

I think IBD's are overall more versatile. There are just so many ways they can save a life. These look really good for their specific purpose though. I think having both is a good idea. I would definitely not give up the IBD's however, especially if you already have training with them. Really useful for all sorts of trauma beyond GSW's.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

Funny, but I've rarely felt safer anywhere, than while cruising in Cuba...

:-)

Having a more technical background, for me, someones "feelings" about safeness are worthless.

Real quantifiable data is a start toward situational awareness. This data may include statistics on violence for a given harbor, city, state, country and information about changing local political realities for example.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I remember standing on 142nd st in Harlem(NY) in the 1980s and I can say that the place is not the same today as it was then ..I dismiss all communistic and socialistic (including Simon Bolivar type systems)govs. as slums from the top down..The very thought of giving equally to all(regradless of ability or station in life that they were born under) is repugnant and incomprehensible to me...I have no problem helping anyone but when they look at it as if it were a right I have a problem...They all live in slums when they stand with their hands extended saying "what have you done for me lately"...

ROFL...
Ever noticed that Communist run Countries and Corporate run Countries are more or less the same..
5% with 95%
35% with 4%
60% with the remaining 1% of the National Wealth..
Reality and Bigotry seldom hold hands where £$'s are concerned.


PS; Not a personal attack.. just a viewpoint from travelling the world as part of the 60/1%

[ParadiseParrot]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

In a socialist/communist run country all places are a slum..He would have had the same problems if he had dropped anchor in front of Maduros palace..

Brasil is not a communist country. Those sailors made a bad judgement and paid an awful price for it. What they could have done after they anchored is a lose/lose but they could have moved after they were warned not to anchor there and they would still be alive

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Having a more technical background, for me, someones "feelings" about safeness are worthless.

Real quantifiable data is a start toward situational awareness. This data may include statistics on violence for a given harbor, city, state, country and information about changing local political realities for example.

Yeah, no doubt my "feelings" were entirely without foundation...

Or perhaps not, according to sources like Noonsite, or the latest data from the Caribbean Security Index, "created as a tool to help cruisers assess the risk of crime at ports of call in the Caribbean..."

http://freecruisingguides.com/guides...e4_2014.01.pdf

CUBA

Ratings:

At marinas... 9.8

Anchored out...9.8

Mitigating factors... Cuba has significant yacht traffic and there is virtually no crime against yachtsmen. Considerable work is underway to improve the physical infrastructure for cruisers. However, one may encounter random, unmarked, submerged, obsolete structures; exercise navigational caution.

Gotta love the irony, that one of only 2 other locales in the entire Caribbean Basin to match Cuba's security rating at both marinas, and at anchor, is the place where a guy like Mitt Romney "feels comfortable" stashing much of his Nest Egg...

:-)

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by ParadiseParrot

Brasil is not a communist country. Those sailors made a bad judgement and paid an awful price for it. What they could have done after they anchored is a lose/lose but they could have moved after they were warned not to anchor there and they would still be alive

true..