Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

[Group9]

Every country has good parts and bad, I imagine. The trick is knowing where each is. I live in a really quiet little town 70 miles from New Orleans, that almost doesn't even have crime. But, you can head into New Orleans, and get robbed and/or get shot just about any time you feel like it by going to the wrong neighborhood.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

OK Therapy. I've just read a log of the posts. My thoughts on the subject now are....... No guns. Issues with customs. So no guns. I did however read this. Very interesting.

"A 25mm flare gun has a much higher muzzle velocity and 4 times the energy of a 12 gauge.*

A jar of gasoline followed by a flare I would imagine would have some effect on a vessel attempting to come alongside. At least they would be distracted for a while.

Then there is the usual assortment of spear*guns*or Bahama slings for close in work if you do not want to torch your own vessel.

If you are travelling through an area filled with pirates it may be an idea to pick up a one of those high pressure* water* sprayers, 3000 PSI sounds about right. You probably could reach out to 200-300 feet or so with the right nozzle with a stream of gasoline.

It would be unfortunate if someone was smoking or fired a gun on the approaching vessel."

Now I'm not saying I'm even thinking of using any these options but there are options.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bPTjTChQRfc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And throwing gasoline about is just silly. Do you believe in practicing things before hand? Try some of that gasoline stuff in a rocking/sailing/heeling (or what ever) boat.

One guy said he was going to have armor. The real steel stuff.

edit: I don't know how to put the youtube in here. I tried upload on two things I copied from the video. URL something or other. Shizzzlefugs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPTjTChQRfc

And there are more. Flare guns are useless.

If I had a gun in a boat nest to yours and you threw a glass of gas I would shoot you before you could do anything else.

See, bad guys don't stand and wait for you to do the next thing. It ain't checkers.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

On the two occasions I have had guns pointed at me. Once by Muslims in the Mid East and Once in Buenos Aires, Argentina by car jackers .

Did the fact they were Muslim make them extra dangerous..

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Therapy

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bPTjTChQRfc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And throwing gasoline about is just silly. Do you believe in practicing things before hand? Try some of that gasoline stuff in a rocking/sailing/heeling (or what ever) boat.

One guy said he was going to have armor. The real steel stuff.

And there are more. Flare guns are useless.

I agree with most of your points above.

But I question why you think a flare gun is "useless."

Given some circumstances, I think it would be more useful than nothing (e.g. in a confrontation with someone armed with something less than a gun).

And it certainly has a real "use" (its intended purpose, as a signaling device).

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Did the fact they were Muslim make them extra dangerous..

[sailorboy1]

cruisers are scary, if thieves were to start reading internet forums I bet they would never mess with them

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Did the fact they were Muslim make them extra dangerous..

If one was Jewish and they being the Jew killing type of Muslim... I would say so. But as our President says they are a peace loving people.

[Wannabe-007]

I'm curious that you managed to have a discussion about religious beliefs with them...
I suppose if they stopped, mid-ordeal, to answer the call to prayer, that could be a strong indicator.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

I agree with most of your points above.

But I question why you think a flare gun is "useless."

Given some circumstances, I think it would be more useful than nothing (e.g. in a confrontation with someone armed with something less than a gun).

And it certainly has a real "use" (its intended purpose, as a signaling device).

I agree. A flare gun is better than nothing. But If the bad guy has a real gun and it was being pointed at me I would have no option but to smile and hope. Then its a game of having your wits about you and praying you will be one of the lucky ones. Even if you don't see a gun you must assume he has one tucked in his pants behind and within 2seconds able to be reached for and pointed at you.

Of course the first step is to be cautious and not anchor in a dangerous place. Haven read up on the gun laws in many countries and taking into account my unwillingness to kill someone just because he was drunk and stumbled onto my boat at night I am left with few options.

One defensive option I may consider is one that was suggested from a poster a few years ago that I read from one of the great links posted by Therapy. Namely rigging an electric "fence" on your boat along with a very loud alarm with a siren and auto spot lights. At least you stand a good chance of scaring off the intruder and have them move on to an easier boat to intrude. And without the need of a face to face meeting.

So I won't be packing. No point if you can only use it on the high seas. Then base ball bats and spear guns after the electric fence breach are worth considering. Meeting an aggressor with non aggression in the first few seconds maybe no choice but after quickly assessing if he has a gun or not, a Louisville Slugger may do the trick. Definitely to be kept close to the inside of the Salon door.

All in all the choices are not good.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Wannabe-007

I'm curious that you managed to have a discussion about religious beliefs with them...
I suppose if they stopped, mid-ordeal, to answer the call to prayer, that could be a strong indicator.

No discussion needed if you have a Jewish name and they were distinctively Arab. I wouldn't assume that either were Quakers nor would I or they have to ask.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

I agree with most of your points above.

But I question why you think a flare gun is "useless."

Given some circumstances, I think it would be more useful than nothing (e.g. in a confrontation with someone armed with something less than a gun).

And it certainly has a real "use" (its intended purpose, as a signaling device).

Context in communication.

a defense weapon similar to a pistol = useless.

[Group9]

""A 25mm flare gun has a much higher muzzle velocity and 4 times the energy of a 12 gauge."

Here you go. Everything you ever wanted to know about the ballistics and lethality of a flare gun.

http://www.noedelscientific.com/user/Flaregun1.pdf

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Sad story. Evidently the use of an alarm was not enough to cause the perps to flee.

Maybe this would have helped? https://www.youtube.com/user/fogband...e=results_main

I quite like the idea that at least for the next ten mins they'll struggle to see anything to take.... buys some time to make even more noise too perhaps?

Sad story

[Heath68]

That's a funny but quite useful idea :-)

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

OK Therapy. I've just read a log of the posts. My thoughts on the subject now are....... No guns. Issues with customs. So no guns. I did however read this. Very interesting.

"A 25mm flare gun has a much higher muzzle velocity and 4 times the energy of a 12 gauge.*

A jar of gasoline followed by a flare I would imagine would have some effect on a vessel attempting to come alongside. At least they would be distracted for a while.

Then there is the usual assortment of spear*guns*or Bahama slings for close in work if you do not want to torch your own vessel.

If you are travelling through an area filled with pirates it may be an idea to pick up a one of those high pressure* water* sprayers, 3000 PSI sounds about right. You probably could reach out to 200-300 feet or so with the right nozzle with a stream of gasoline.

It would be unfortunate if someone was smoking or fired a gun on the approaching vessel."

Now I'm not saying I'm even thinking of using any these options but there are options.

If you're really interested in "something".. my son is into Crossbows... he says (you'll maybe have to verify this) that whilst many countries have laws about guns, hardly any have any laws about crossbows.. yet they can be equally deadly and just as accurate... I'm still not sure myself either.