Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Heath68

If you're really interested in "something".. my son is into Crossbows... he says (you'll maybe have to verify this) that whilst many countries have laws about guns, hardly any have any laws about crossbows.. yet they can be equally deadly and just as accurate... I'm still not sure myself either.

I remember bringing an old native long bow I bought in Argentina into the US at Atlanta airport. They were going to confiscate it as a dangerous weapon even though I had already flown with it in the cabin and I was not immediately boarding another plane. And the arrows were separate in my suitcase. They even told me I could be charged with a crime. I was nice and explained about the arrows not being with me and luckily they let me keep it and didn't charge me. Having said that I would want to check the laws about cross bows but definitely a good possible solution. Mind you an un-tethered spear in a powerful pneumatic spear gun can be used to great effect as well. And there is definitely no problem having these

[JPA Cate]

Friend from US had crossbow stored in plain view on the overhead of the master cabin. He was required by Australian Customs to give them the bow for the duration of his stay in the country. He did get it back, eventuallly, but they sent it to Darwin for storage, and it took a long time to deliver it, the day he left for NZ. So here's another country that doesn't want you to bring your crossbow in, nor, for that matter, your sling shot.

Color us gun free.

Ann

[sailorboy1]

I think that when at anchorage at night and hearing someone out on deck that going out to confront them is right up there with being at home and going downstairs to face off with the guys breaking in!

It is just asking for danger.

You need a method at anchor to keep people out of the boat so that you can call for help and have some control on their ability to come down to get you.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Group9

""A 25mm flare gun has a much higher muzzle velocity and 4 times the energy of a 12 gauge."

Here you go. Everything you ever wanted to know about the ballistics and lethality of a flare gun.

http://www.noedelscientific.com/user/Flaregun1.pdf

It locked up on me.
But watching the video of a "big" flare gun tells me it will just bounce off. I found a YouTube of a couple of guys speculating about a flare gun for defense. They said it would be about as good as a pistol Their test was against a door. Since the flare went through the door skin they surmised it would go through human skin. A pellet gun will go through door skin but not human skin but they are too stupid to think of much.

Originally Posted by Heath68

Maybe this would have helped? https://www.youtube.com/user/fogband...e=results_main

I quite like the idea that at least for the next ten mins they'll struggle to see anything to take.... buys some time to make even more noise too perhaps?

Sad story

Ya think that would do much in an open cockpit with even a tiny breeze? You could have it go off down below. For what I don't know, but hey, it looks cool.

[Group9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vfQwdszJYM

The 25mm would probably scare someone pretty good, anyway.

[tdominic_97]

Informative flare gun video. Looks like they missed the stationary target 4 out of 9 times. Good luck with a moving target on a boat.

[GoingWalkabout]

What about having two stun guns?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

What about having two stun guns?

One to have and one to share?

Most countries outlaw them too.

Problem with the USA is that we have a lot of things we can get over-the-counter that other countries don't allow.

But then there are things other countries let us buy over-the-counter that we cannot buy at home.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by tdominic_97

Informative flare gun video. Looks like they missed the stationary target 4 out of 9 times. Good luck with a moving target on a boat.

But that is probably no different from most "real" uses of handguns, where most people miss on most shots against a real person at 20 feet (the distance the video indicated).

Even police officers who have MUCH practice in ranges, often miss many shots when in real confrontations.

Being fired AT is often enough to cause most people (even those armed) to stop advancing or to seek cover or to FLEE, and that may be all it takes to end a confrontation.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

But that is probably no different from most "real" uses of handguns, where most people miss on most shots against a real person at 20 feet (the distance the video indicated).

Even police officers who have MUCH practice in ranges, often miss many shots when in real confrontations.

Being fired AT is often enough to cause most people (even those armed) to stop advancing or to seek cover or to FLEE, and that may be all it takes to end a confrontation.

There was a thread a few years ago where that actually happened. I believe it was a daughter that drove off the attackers with a flare gun. I don't know if it was fired or just brandished. Unfortunately, if I remember correctly, her father was already injured and died.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

But that is probably no different from most "real" uses of handguns, where most people miss on most shots against a real person at 20 feet (the distance the video indicated).

Even police officers who have MUCH practice in ranges, often miss many shots when in real confrontations.

Being fired AT is often enough to cause most people (even those armed) to stop advancing or to seek cover or to FLEE, and that may be all it takes to end a confrontation.

I would think having a sizzling hot red flare whizz by your head, would at least make you briefly reconsider the possible negative results of a plan to rob and steal without excitement or drama.

[category4jay]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Having survived an attempted car hijacking in Argentina by 4 armed military age and looking assailants I am positive I would not be here today if I hadn't used my evasion and anti terrorist training. This is not the first time I was surrounded at gunpoint in my car. The previous time was in Israel when I was taken by armed muslims. Then I didn't resist and evasive action was out of the question since I was top and tailed with the armed guys sandwiching me in with their cars at the front and rear. In this instance I was taken and then subjected to the most awful experience which I won't go into here. Only to say that being interrogated at the point of pistol in a dingy jail was the most terrifying thing I had experienced. Never knowing from second to second wether each breath was going to be my last. So when attacked in Argentina I was determined not to allow myself and my helpless passengers to be put in that position. I reversed my car as the gunmen pointed their Glocks with laser points into my car. Assessed that I had enough distance to take out the open doors of the bandits car that was in front of me blocking the on ramp to the freeway. I flawed my BMW and went flying past the gunmen who had a look of shock on their faces. (I am sure they weren't expecting this from a blond women). I hit their car left back and front doors at I guess around 80mph. The doors went flying into the air ripped clean off. Luckily my strong car was not disabled and I was able to hit the freeway. They did chase after me. And I did get away.

I will not ever put myself in a position of living or dying at the whim of a bandit. Self protection be it evasive or overwhelming fire power is for me not something i even have to think about. Someone steps foot on my boat uninvited they deserve to be blown away. Especially after the Brazil incident I do not think I have another choice than to cary at the very least a captains side arm. Now I have to study up on the international laws about carrying firearms at sea and in port.

Sorry to bore you all with my own land based experiences but it may give some understanding why I feel the way I do.

Chaya.

This is gonna be good. Chaya I bet you'd be great to sail with!! Go girl go!

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Having survived an attempted car hijacking in Argentina by 4 armed military age and looking assailants I am positive I would not be here today if I hadn't used my evasion and anti terrorist training. This is not the first time I was surrounded at gunpoint in my car. The previous time was in Israel when I was taken by armed muslims. Then I didn't resist and evasive action was out of the question since I was top and tailed with the armed guys sandwiching me in with their cars at the front and rear. In this instance I was taken and then subjected to the most awful experience which I won't go into here. Only to say that being interrogated at the point of pistol in a dingy jail was the most terrifying thing I had experienced. Never knowing from second to second wether each breath was going to be my last. So when attacked in Argentina I was determined not to allow myself and my helpless passengers to be put in that position. I reversed my car as the gunmen pointed their Glocks with laser points into my car. Assessed that I had enough distance to take out the open doors of the bandits car that was in front of me blocking the on ramp to the freeway. I flawed my BMW and went flying past the gunmen who had a look of shock on their faces. (I am sure they weren't expecting this from a blond women). I hit their car left back and front doors at I guess around 80mph. The doors went flying into the air ripped clean off. Luckily my strong car was not disabled and I was able to hit the freeway. They did chase after me. And I did get away.

I will not ever put myself in a position of living or dying at the whim of a bandit. Self protection be it evasive or overwhelming fire power is for me not something i even have to think about. Someone steps foot on my boat uninvited they deserve to be blown away. Especially after the Brazil incident I do not think I have another choice than to cary at the very least a captains side arm. Now I have to study up on the international laws about carrying firearms at sea and in port.

Sorry to bore you all with my own land based experiences but it may give some understanding why I feel the way I do.

Chaya.

Damn, that's hot! [emoji7]

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Having survived an attempted car hijacking in Argentina by 4 armed military age and looking assailants I am positive I would not be here today if I hadn't used my evasion and anti terrorist training. This is not the first time I was surrounded at gunpoint in my car. The previous time was in Israel when I was taken by armed muslims. Then I didn't resist and evasive action was out of the question since I was top and tailed with the armed guys sandwiching me in with their cars at the front and rear. In this instance I was taken and then subjected to the most awful experience which I won't go into here. Only to say that being interrogated at the point of pistol in a dingy jail was the most terrifying thing I had experienced. Never knowing from second to second wether each breath was going to be my last. So when attacked in Argentina I was determined not to allow myself and my helpless passengers to be put in that position. I reversed my car as the gunmen pointed their Glocks with laser points into my car. Assessed that I had enough distance to take out the open doors of the bandits car that was in front of me blocking the on ramp to the freeway. I flawed my BMW and went flying past the gunmen who had a look of shock on their faces. (I am sure they weren't expecting this from a blond women). I hit their car left back and front doors at I guess around 80mph. The doors went flying into the air ripped clean off. Luckily my strong car was not disabled and I was able to hit the freeway. They did chase after me. And I did get away.

I will not ever put myself in a position of living or dying at the whim of a bandit. Self protection be it evasive or overwhelming fire power is for me not something i even have to think about. Someone steps foot on my boat uninvited they deserve to be blown away. Especially after the Brazil incident I do not think I have another choice than to cary at the very least a captains side arm. Now I have to study up on the international laws about carrying firearms at sea and in port.

Sorry to bore you all with my own land based experiences but it may give some understanding why I feel the way I do.

Chaya.

perhaps you might consider either sailing somewhere a little safer, or perhaps a career change

Someone steps foot on my boat uninvited they deserve to be blown away. Especially after the Brazil incident I do not think I have another choice than to cary at the very least a captains side arm. Now I have to study up on the international laws about carrying firearms at sea and in port.

Most countries would jail you , if you actually acted like that and " blew" away someone simply for standing in your boat. You response must be proportional to the perceived threat.

dave

[boatman61]

One thing to bear in mind..
While we may be familiar with flare guns a lot of these opportunitist thieves are not.. they are however well familiar with Hollywood movies so when there's a loud bang and a ball of fire hurtles towards them they are gonna **** themselves and give you a moment to act while they react to the flare..
Victories are usually gained by the unexpected.. if your gonna fight that has to be the goal.