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Old 13-03-2015, 13:57   #136
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Originally Posted by Going Walkabout View Post
So true about the current Junta stealing the country wealth. Not long ago a South American President was flying back on her state large jet and had an unscheduled stop for a few ours in the Seychelles. Reliable reports are she unloaded a plane full of currency for deposit in her hidden accounts so the transfer couldn't be monitored by the US intelligence. It is estimated this President has stolen over 1/3 rd of he countries reserves. Yes there is corruption in Governments around the world but nothing on the scale that you see in SA.
She is truly a living legend in the corruption stakes is she not.
Good for the occasional larf though...
Do you reckon she will stick around after her term is up or fly out directo from Santa Cruz with all the loot?
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Old 13-03-2015, 15:10   #137
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Yeah, supposedly he's been missing for the past 8-9 days and I hope he's not lurking on CF looking to revenge past or current slights.

But back to the topic. I think that the cruisers coming from the more well to do countries (or so perceived by the locals) will always be targets of some sort. Either of scams such as "my grandma needs an expensive operation" from a local beach love interest or a local business fleecing you for some part or service just because you have a boat. Even if the place is relatively violence free. IMO it's just a part of doing business/comes with the territory and should be acknowledged and adjusted to accordingly. After all we're coming to their land so we have to play by their rules (or lack thereof) no matter how unfair or onerous they may seem to us.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep and yep.
That is sort of how we noticed last year's trip to a bunch of islands. Hardly a moments relaxation without someone trying to sell us something whether it be a trinket, service or scam. Not to mention the outright theft. (even from ATM's attached to the wall of a bank!(X2!!)) I really hate to admit it but they won't see any more if our money. F em.
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Old 13-03-2015, 15:15   #138
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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She is truly a living legend in the corruption stakes is she not.
Good for the occasional larf though...
Do you reckon she will stick around after her term is up or fly out directo from Santa Cruz with all the loot?
It all depends in how much she can take control of the Judiciary and Police. She has already disbanded the Security Police service and is replacing it with 'her" people. She failed in staking the Supreme Court but is still working on having her cronies in the Courts in position to protect her. My bet would be she will flee if she fails in tying up everything with her paid off people in power. She would prefer I am sure to stay given her hotels in the south she owns. Big joke is everyone knows she got the land for her developments for a cents on the dollar. The fact that this has not been challenged in the courts already shows she has more control over the Judges than what people realize. Every dog has their day and people's roosters do eventually come home to roost.

Who knows if she needs to run where that will be. Perhaps Tehran.
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Old 13-03-2015, 15:27   #139
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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It all depends in how much she can take control of the Judiciary and Police. She has already disbanded the Security Police service and is replacing it with 'her" people. She failed in staking the Supreme Court but is still working on having her cronies in the Courts in position to protect her. My bet would be she will flee if she fails in tying up everything with her paid off people in power. She would prefer I am sure to stay given her hotels in the south she owns. Big joke is everyone knows she got the land for her developments for a cents on the dollar. The fact that this has not been challenged in the courts already shows she has more control over the Judges than what people realize. Every dog has their day and people's roosters do eventually come home to roost.

Who knows if she needs to run where that will be. Perhaps Tehran.
Nonsense. The "example" of independent (from her) judiciary is the recently deceased Nisman (suicide), who in 10 years of investigating anti-Israel terrorism attacks didn't make the case for a single conviction.

You believe all the crap put out by the Clarín Group (press and TV), which has a huge economic interest in see her fail. You assign to her an incredible power, not attainable in a country of huge egos such as Argentina.

The truth is that since the 70's Argentina is a political mess and the last few governments have rescued it from the economic abyss. Of course, the rich are paying more taxes and the poor are receiving social services. The rich hate that, and the lower middle class and the poor vote for her. Suck it up, that's democracy.

Just to make the post CF-worthy , I'm sailing soon up river along the Argentinian border. No fear of any kind of attacks, maybe petty theft if I leave the boat open for a week in a marina, but that would be careless.
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Old 13-03-2015, 15:29   #140
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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I agree with your observations and conclusion. Yes bad Government does equal crime. I would also add so does ingrained into society laziness. Sitting around in houses you didn't pay for. Squating on land. Being given Government handouts. Being treated beyond the law by the Police. All contribute to a lawless populas who think they are free to rob and kill with impunity. Welcome to Latin America.
I have to agree but there are a number of factors that make up how a society think. In Thailand it is definitely that there is a strong reason to stay out of jail linked to a very popular Buddhist belief that you shouldn't do ill to another together with a desire to make sure your actions do not taint your King and country's name.

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Old 13-03-2015, 15:53   #141
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Yeah, supposedly he's been missing for the past 8-9 days and I hope he's not lurking on CF looking to revenge past or current slights.

But back to the topic. I think that the cruisers coming from the more well to do countries (or so perceived by the locals) will always be targets of some sort. Either of scams such as "my grandma needs an expensive operation" from a local beach love interest or a local business fleecing you for some part or service just because you have a boat. Even if the place is relatively violence free. IMO it's just a part of doing business/comes with the territory and should be acknowledged and adjusted to accordingly. After all we're coming to their land so we have to play by their rules (or lack thereof) no matter how unfair or onerous they may seem to us.
How does the saying go.... birds of a feather flock together......

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Old 13-03-2015, 15:55   #142
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Old 13-03-2015, 15:59   #143
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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I have to agree but there are a number of factors that make up how a society think. In Thailand it is definitely that there is a strong reason to stay out of jail linked to a very popular Buddhist belief that you shouldn't do ill to another together with a desire to make sure your actions do not taint your King and country's name.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
I always felt safe in Thailand. Even walking in the street amongst the poorer of society. And I agree that the Buddhist religion has a lot to do with it. It's a shame isn't the case in many other parts of the world.
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Old 13-03-2015, 17:22   #144
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Nonsense. The "example" of independent (from her) judiciary is the recently deceased Nisman (suicide), who in 10 years of investigating anti-Israel terrorism attacks didn't make the case for a single conviction.

You believe all the crap put out by the Clarín Group (press and TV), which has a huge economic interest in see her fail. You assign to her an incredible power, not attainable in a country of huge egos such as Argentina.

The truth is that since the 70's Argentina is a political mess and the last few governments have rescued it from the economic abyss. Of course, the rich are paying more taxes and the poor are receiving social services. The rich hate that, and the lower middle class and the poor vote for her. Suck it up, that's democracy.

Just to make the post CF-worthy , I'm sailing soon up river along the Argentinian border. No fear of any kind of attacks, maybe petty theft if I leave the boat open for a week in a marina, but that would be careless.
In two years I never locked my boat in any Rio de la Plata port..lock has been busted long time. There are certainly no go areas in all the big towns, the Cuidad Vieja after dark comes to mind...

The issue in Argentina esp BA is more about viveza criolla. What did the Uruguayan politician say ' all thieves, every last one of them'?
The rich avoid paying taxes, the poor are 'subsidised' ( CFKs word, not mine) by the government and no meaningful effort is made to lift them out of their poverty. No poverty -- no Peronista power base.

Argentina has been on a slippery slide since Peron turned up. If you want to read a yachtsman's view of a visit to BA in 1951 try 'Waltzing Matilda' by Phillip Davenport... the more things change the more they stay the same.

Enjoy your trip up the Rio Uruguay... bonzer area. Colonia is my all time favourite port anywhere.

El Pinguino Chileano, no Pinguino Argentino.....
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Old 14-03-2015, 09:31   #145
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Sorry to rain in your parade, but the leftists governments of SA brought their economies to a high point unknown in decades, with the possible exception of Vzla, which is 100% dependent on oil prices.

Please inform yourself before making assertions of that nature.
What the SA govs. have done is fall hook line and sinker for what has got them to where they are now..Its what happens from this moment own ward that matters..Some have taken the lessons taught/learned to places like Burma(Myanmar)/Cuba and learned from it ,others are just as obstinate as they have always been and will soon learn what sticking to that course of action or inaction will bring them..If you think that those in power in several S. American country's are going to persaver that is your proragative,i feel that you will soon learn differently..These countrys all have something in common with there "leaders"(literally) Cancer!! I guess you will (try to)rain on that parade also but it is fact! I have no romantic notions nor contempt for any of these places,just facts..I wish them all well in the future,but near term there will be many problems and all that you think that they have done in a positive manner will soon crumble, from the rotten edifice to the shaky foundations built upon sand ...My "assertions"are all very well informed, soon you to will realize that to be true..
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Old 14-03-2015, 09:35   #146
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pirate Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
She is truly a living legend in the corruption stakes is she not.
Good for the occasional larf though...
Do you reckon she will stick around after her term is up or fly out directo from Santa Cruz with all the loot?
Mate... they'll try and steal anything... don't you remember the Falklands..?
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Old 14-03-2015, 09:54   #147
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

Come on people! Let's not insult liberal governments by saying that Venezuela is a leftist government. Venezuela is a failed dictatorship of wealthy corrupt psychopaths and military men who have stolen billions of oil revenues by selling the poor the idea that if only the USA stopped trying to invade the country they would be able to have food on the table. Venezuela is the only oil producing country that did not improve its economy during the oil bonanza of the late 90s and 2000s. It is the only country in South America that did not improve its economy during the last 10 years, despite having the largest oil reserves outside the middle east. Name any index of quality of life (crime, inflation, poverty, education, purchasing power, currency strength, independence of powers, corruption, food production, etc etc etc) and Venezuela will be dead last with some of the worst failed states on earth. Chavismo is an indefensible ideology that destroyed that beautiful country.

PS, I grew up there. My parents still live there. They are in their late 70s and now stand in line for 6+ hours every week to buy food or something as simple as two rolls of toilet paper.
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Old 14-03-2015, 10:04   #148
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Come on people! Let's not insult liberal governments by saying that Venezuela is a leftist government. Venezuela is a failed dictatorship of wealthy corrupt psychopaths and military men who have stolen billions of oil revenues by selling the poor the idea that if only the USA stopped trying to invade the country they would be able to have food on the table. Venezuela is the only oil producing country that did not improve its economy during the oil bonanza of the late 90s and 2000s. It is the only country in South America that did not improve its economy during the last 10 years, despite having the largest oil reserves outside the middle east. Name any index of quality of life (crime, inflation, poverty, education, purchasing power, currency strength, independence of powers, corruption, food production, etc etc etc) and Venezuela will be dead last with some of the worst failed states on earth. Chavismo is an indefensible ideology that destroyed that beautiful country.

PS, I grew up there. My parents still live there. They in their late 70s and now stand in line for 6+ hours every week to buy food or something as simple as two rolls of toilet paper.
A man that gives a real prospectus of whats going on and what is real..I hate that your folks have to endure the problems created by crazy and greedy people..
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Old 14-03-2015, 16:10   #149
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Originally Posted by BlueBuddha View Post
Come on people! Let's not insult liberal governments by saying that Venezuela is a leftist government. Venezuela is a failed dictatorship of wealthy corrupt psychopaths and military men who have stolen billions of oil revenues by selling the poor the idea that if only the USA stopped trying to invade the country they would be able to have food on the table. Venezuela is the only oil producing country that did not improve its economy during the oil bonanza of the late 90s and 2000s. It is the only country in South America that did not improve its economy during the last 10 years, despite having the largest oil reserves outside the middle east. Name any index of quality of life (crime, inflation, poverty, education, purchasing power, currency strength, independence of powers, corruption, food production, etc etc etc) and Venezuela will be dead last with some of the worst failed states on earth. Chavismo is an indefensible ideology that destroyed that beautiful country.

PS, I grew up there. My parents still live there. They are in their late 70s and now stand in line for 6+ hours every week to buy food or something as simple as two rolls of toilet paper.
I can understand why you don't live there.
I hope you can find a way to help your parents.
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Old 14-03-2015, 16:24   #150
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Re: Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

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Just to make the post CF-worthy , I'm sailing soon up river along the Argentinian border. No fear of any kind of attacks, maybe petty theft if I leave the boat open for a week in a marina, but that would be careless.
No real risk of getting your boat ratted in a BAs marina* as they are gated communities. Serious high risk of getting mugged, rolled, carjacked etc etc when you leave the marina though, even the office girls in the Prefectura carry side arms. Most smaller shops need you to 'knock three times' before they will unlock the door...

* The exception makes the rule... a lot of boats were broken into when I was at a S Fernando marina but it was an inside job... the 'boat boy' off a local boat.
I don't think they can help themselves... what was it that ex Pres Batlle said a while back ? Anibal Fernandez calls Uruguayan former president Batlle a 'gorilla' — MercoPress
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