Cuba - Warning non-American Boats

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Name any country and it will take me about two minutes to write some paragraphs on asinine aspects of its foreign and domestic policy.

They (as in the guy who until recently ran the place, and now its his brother) went so far as to have nuclear weapons on deck to rain down on our heads about fifty years ago. I agree that our foreign policy towards Cuba is rather ridiculous right now, but after watching documentaries like The Fog of War I can see why people who lived through that might err on the side of caution.

I lived near Mayport (UN) Naval Station during the Guban Missile Crisis. It was terrifying. The brand-new interstate was closed to civilians, now used for its main purpose, to move military staff and materiel around efficiently.

That said, things have changed a whole lot since then, and I think it makes more sense to get along with your neighbors when you can.

Sailing back to the US from Cuba you'd best stop off in another country first. The Bahamas are handy.

[shorebird]

Fidel Castro visited Canada in 2000. Younger people thought it was no big deal, but people my age thought how much things had changed since the cold war and the October crisis.

[Nemo55]

The requirement is to produce the American equivalent of an operators certificate or License.
So yes indeed the agreement stands and is reciprocal,,The Canadian Operators Permit is Honored in the U.S.

Originally Posted by ice

You do know that US vessels entering Canadian waters have to check in and get a cruising permit number (max of 90 days I believe) and if we stay more than 45 days must get a Pleasure Craft Operator Card (or similar) - which I might note the US does not require of Canadians in its waters. This is in no way an 'open border' going either way.

[Sailor g]

Originally Posted by lookinggoodrock

The illiteracy rate in Cuba is 0 percent, whats it in USA? The US government is in Guantanimo bay illegally, their lease ran out in 1998. it's time to grow up and move on guys. The only reason the USA has an embargo and doesn't want to leave is because of the foul up at Guantanimo bay. It was the only time the US army was pushed off of foreign soil!
Thank God the Americans aren't allowed there, the Cubans can keep their identity, get free education, free medical, free dental, and free oil from Venezuela! Oops that doesn't fit the American oppressive lifestyle! The Americans keep their people down, while socialists help their people up. Canada good country! Be afraid USA, be very afraid! Whooo! the bogeyman lives in Cuba!

Stupid is as stupid does!

The literacy rate in countries like Cuba are not based on all-only those who are can afford secondary schools (many go to work) and ask Cubans how much food, education and medical they really get-it's hardly anything. Only those in the upper class have access to the good stuff. Look at the sheer number of poor in Cuba.

The US sure isn't perfect but nukes were pointed in BOTH directions during the cold war. Cuban missile crisis was a bit close for comfort. I hope the Castro's are on their way out & things improve for all. I would love to visit Cuba but will wait until things improve. There have been chances for talks but they choose not to participate. Let's hope this changes soon.

[Katiusha]

You people... this thread had a chance of being very informative on a fairly hot issue [sailing between Cuba and US for non-US boats with non-US citizens].

However, because a lot of you couldn't resist to talk politics, now I have to sift through pages of "Embargo good, embargo bad, Fidel good, Fidel bad, US government blah-blah" to actually get any information relevant to OPs situation


45% of replies were pure politics

[Jimbo485]

Ok, back to cruising!

We sailed to Cuba in 2000/01 and had a great time. Especially once we worked out that we had to stay away from the ports where the bureaucracy was a bit too much. At the time, Cubans were offering us US$8000 a head to illegally traffic them back to the USA. We took plenty of soap, shampoo and sunnies and ate far too many lobsters and drank too much rum.

We were planning to head back there this season, but have changed our minds in favour of a larger body of water to the west.

Anyway, just as a heads up for any of you cruising across to the other side of the Pacific, there are a few things you should know before you get to the land of the roos.

1. Australia was bombed by the Japanese in Sydney, Townsville, Darwin and Broome. It is a sensitive topic. Not missiles being aimed at them, but bombs landing and killing Australians. (Imagine that in NY, LA, Miami, etc)
2. It was definitely a hot war, not a cold one!
3. 1000s of Aussies died in Japanese POW camps.
4. Animosity continues in the older generations, but not in the younger ones.
5. If you, as a non-Aussie, cannot prove that you have never contributed to the Japanese economy, you will be prosecuted and your boat will be confiscated under the Enemy Trading Act of the Australian Parliament.
6. The onus of proof is on you to prove your innocence. So you have to prove to the satisfaction of the Australian authorities that you have never purchased a Toyota, Honda, Sony or any other Japanese product. If you cannot prove this, you will be assumed to be guilty under Australian law.
7. If you are ignorant enough to arrive in Australia with a Honda outboard on your dinghy, God help you, because the law certainly will not.


Ok, let's take a deep breath now!


If you think the above sounds a bit ridiculous, then make a few parallels and some reasonable conclusions.


And for the really ignorant, I will finish by saying that a truly free country (and Autralia is not quite that) would never try to enforce their own laws beyond their own national boundaries unless they actually went to war and cleared up the misunderstanding with a bit of short term violence.

Yes, you got it right, buy whatever you want from the Japanese, the Aussies couldn't care less!

[phiggins]

More details of what happened:

We left the USA in February and cleared out to Isla Mujeres Mexico. We crossed to Cuba to get the counter current to Mexico. During the night our autopilot failed and the engine started overheating so we pulled into Cuba. We fixed the engine problem but were not able to fix the autopilot so after 4 weeks I decided to sail back to USA.

We arrived at Key West at 3am on Saturday at the fuel dock at Conch harbor and called the the number posted for Customs and Immigration and I told them we had just sailed in from Cuba and that I was a Canadian, the boat was Canadian but that my mate was American. They officer on the phone gave me a clearance number and said we should report to the Customs office in Key West but that it was closed on the weekend so go in Monday morning. We went and anchored.

On Monday we went to the Customs office but no officers were there so we called Customs at the airport and gave them the same information. They said I would have to take the boat back to the fuel dock for inspection. So we took it back. After a few hours Customs officers arrived and asked if we had any Cuban cigars or rum, we didn't and their inspection found nothing.

The customs officer made me fill out some detailed information on our visit to Cuba. I said I had paid for everything, my mate paid for nothing. The gave me the Treaury document on travel restrictions to Cuba and pointed out that it applies even to anyone in the USA regardless of citizenship and that that we both could be arrested and the boat seized. He then took my expired Crusing permit and said I would no longer get a new one. Then they left with telling us what we should do.

We went back and anchored and I called the Customs office at the airport and asked them if it was true I could not have a Cruising permit and what we should now do. He said yes it was true and that we should come in and clear in at the office downtown. He said without the crusing permit I would have to get a clearance everytime I moved the boat to another US port.

The next day we went to the customs office and I filled out a clearance form for $19 and got a lecture about Cuba travel restrictions. I said I wanted to move the boat to storage near Fort Myers in a few days. He said to come back the day before I left and get another clearance form for another $19.

Two days later I went back to get a clearance to move the boat. Again nobody was at the office downtown so I took the bus and went to the airport. At the airport I said I wanted to fill out a clearance form to move the boat. She asked where I had come from and I said Cuba. She then said and I quote "I see no reason to charge you more money, just go."
So we did.

[Katiusha]

Thank you for the detailed account. Did you actually clear in to Cuba? Immigration, customs, and all? Stamp in the passport?

[savoir]

No passport stamps in Cuba - unless you ask for one.

[prof_mariner]

I wonder if calling the Canadian Consolate General's office in Miami might have been helpful during this whole ordeal?

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by Khagan1227

Currently, the Canadian Dollar and U.S. Dollar are trading less than a penny difference.

On my recent two week trip to Cuba, I had to take Canadian dollars or Euros. I chose Canadian over Euros, which says a lot about the Canadian dollar...or even more about the Euro.

I can remember when one US dollar got you 1.65 in Canadian. Not anymore.

No US Dollars down there. No US credit or debit cards. HAd to take 2 weeks worth in CASH, convert to CUC.

The Canadian $100 bill is a masterpiece.

Chase

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

Ok, back to cruising!

We sailed to Cuba in 2000/01 and had a great time. Especially once we worked out that we had to stay away from the ports where the bureaucracy was a bit too much. At the time, Cubans were offering us US$8000 a head to illegally traffic them back to the USA. We took plenty of soap, shampoo and sunnies and ate far too many lobsters and drank too much rum.

We were planning to head back there this season, but have changed our minds in favour of a larger body of water to the west.

Anyway, just as a heads up for any of you cruising across to the other side of the Pacific, there are a few things you should know before you get to the land of the roos.

1. Australia was bombed by the Japanese in Sydney, Townsville, Darwin and Broome. It is a sensitive topic. Not missiles being aimed at them, but bombs landing and killing Australians. (Imagine that in NY, LA, Miami, etc)
2. It was definitely a hot war, not a cold one!
3. 1000s of Aussies died in Japanese POW camps.
4. Animosity continues in the older generations, but not in the younger ones.
5. If you, as a non-Aussie, cannot prove that you have never contributed to the Japanese economy, you will be prosecuted and your boat will be confiscated under the Enemy Trading Act of the Australian Parliament.
6. The onus of proof is on you to prove your innocence. So you have to prove to the satisfaction of the Australian authorities that you have never purchased a Toyota, Honda, Sony or any other Japanese product. If you cannot prove this, you will be assumed to be guilty under Australian law.
7. If you are ignorant enough to arrive in Australia with a Honda outboard on your dinghy, God help you, because the law certainly will not.

Ok, let's take a deep breath now!

If you think the above sounds a bit ridiculous, then make a few parallels and some reasonable conclusions.

And for the really ignorant, I will finish by saying that a truly free country (and Autralia is not quite that) would never try to enforce their own laws beyond their own national boundaries unless they actually went to war and cleared up the misunderstanding with a bit of short term violence.

Yes, you got it right, buy whatever you want from the Japanese, the Aussies couldn't care less!

So a Honda will get you jailed and boat impounded but a Yamaha wont???? Glad australia makes sense

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

So a Honda will get you jailed and boat impounded but a Yamaha wont???? Glad australia makes sense

Oh no, a Yamaha will get you jailed as quick as the Honda will; see rule 6.
The onus of proof is on you to prove your innocence. So you have to prove to the satisfaction of the Australian authorities that you have never purchased a Toyota, Honda, Sony or any other Japanese product. If you cannot prove this, you will be assumed to be guilty under Australian law.

Why did you think that a Yamaha was OK?

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Mambo

Kat, I want to say I take your point. However, I think you need to reread the initial post. The thread which you suggest was derailed by others injecting politics, didn't begin with a Canadian simply discussing US immigration and customs procedures. It began with him a) characterizing US foreign policy b) stating what *Americans* should do about it and finally saying that it was probably "better" he wouldn't be cruising the US. In my book, that deserves a hardy F-U! (as I would expect to receive from a citizen of any country about which I made a similar cluster of comments).

Everyone in the world has an opinion about the US and Americans. That's fine -- it is understandable. Just don't expect no one to have one about you too. The guy whined about US foreign policy, suggested Americans should protest that policy on his behalf and then got snippy about whether he really wanted to enter the US in the first place. Is that really a substantive thread (or was what you suggest is the "substance" really the tangent?). Anyway, it seemed pretty sterotypicaly Canadian to me.

That BS aside, if you want to discuss US C&I procedures, have at it. I think this morning's follow-up pretty much clarifies that the incident was, at most, an anomaly. Someone (you?) asked about Cuban clearance procedures. I would suggest not placing much importance on the absence of a Cuban zarpe. For practical purposes, if nothing else, I think you want to assume US C&I knows exactly where you came from (you might run into an official who has a bug up their butt about Canadians . . .).

Peace.

Well said.

[Katiusha]

Originally Posted by Mambo

Kat, I want to say I take your point. However, I think you need to reread the initial post. The thread which you suggest was derailed by others injecting politics, didn't begin with a Canadian simply discussing US immigration and customs procedures. It began with him a) characterizing US foreign policy b) stating what *Americans* should do about it and finally saying that it was probably "better" he wouldn't be cruising the US. In my book, that deserves a hardy F-U! (as I would expect to receive from a citizen of any country about which I made a similar cluster of comments).

Everyone in the world has an opinion about the US and Americans. That's fine -- it is understandable. Just don't expect no one to have one about you too. The guy whined about US foreign policy, suggested Americans should protest that policy on his behalf and then got snippy about whether he really wanted to enter the US in the first place. Is that really a substantive thread (or was what you suggest is the "substance" really the tangent?). Anyway, it seemed pretty sterotypicaly Canadian to me.

That BS aside, if you want to discuss US C&I procedures, have at it. I think this morning's follow-up pretty much clarifies that the incident was, at most, an anomaly. Someone (you?) asked about Cuban clearance procedures. I would suggest not placing much importance on the absence of a Cuban zarpe. For practical purposes, if nothing else, I think you want to assume US C&I knows exactly where you came from (you might run into an official who has a bug up their butt about Canadians . . .).

Peace.

Point well taken.

When I had read OP, I focused on US clearance for Canadians from Cuba issues as something pertinent to me.

Truthfully, didn't notice the politics angle of the OP. Being Russian-Canadian and having lived and worked in the States, I've heard all angles of Cuba-US issues, especially from people calling me "one of those damn Soviets!" (I was in kindergarden when SSSR broke up). So I just ignore any topic heading in that direction...