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Old 20-10-2013, 15:25   #76
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Let's use the US as an example.

A person born on US soil is a citizen with all rights given. At no point does that born citizen have a requirement to declare loyalty or servitude to the government or state, something the founders intended. Something which IS the case for all naturalized US Citizens

The only time in my life, as a US born citizen, did I ever swear servitude was when I volunteered to serve my nation for the majority of my adulthood in the Army.
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Old 20-10-2013, 15:27   #77
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Let's use the US as an example. A person born on US soil is a citizen with all rights given. At no point does that born citizen have a requirement to declare loyalty or servitude to the government or state, something the founders intended. Something which IS the case for all naturalized US Citizens The only time in my life, as a US born citizen, did I ever swear servitude was when I volunteered to serve my nation for the majority of my adulthood in the Army.
So by this argument, it could be assumed that a naturalized citizen is "more" of a citizen as they went with full intent at a legal age to become a US Citizen and in most cases renounce the citizenship they had before than average joe American who was just lucky enough to be squat out on a specific piece of dirt.
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Old 20-10-2013, 15:29   #78
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So by this argument, it could be assumed that a naturalized citizen is "more" of a citizen as they went with full intent at a legal age to become a US Citizen and in most cases renounce the citizenship they had before than average joe American who was just lucky enough to be squat out on a specific piece of dirt.
And in reference to the topic of the thread, my grandfather was born and raised in Cuba, left when Castro took over, and because I happen to have been born in America, I can't travel to one of my cultural homelands because I have no direct family living there. Pretty BS if you ask me
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Old 20-10-2013, 15:57   #79
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Re: Cuba for Americans ?

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It's painfully obvious you have no idea how the ACA works or what it does. Go back to watching Fox News.

Again, how has a baby born in a country sworn allegiance?

Pretty sure no us born citizen has sworn allegiance to America unless they volunteered for federal service.
Any kid that went to school in the US when I was growing up probably did just that at the start of each school day.

As I recall, the standard recital started something like this -
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, & to the republic, for which it stands...

Also, if you can please explain to me how the ACA works in plain English, I would find it very helpful. That inch-plus thick document has me a bit bewildered, especially the part about real estate sales tax.
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Old 20-10-2013, 16:05   #80
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Any kid that went to school in the US when I was growing up probably did just that at the start of each school day. As I recall, the standard recital started something like this - I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, & to the republic, for which it stands... Also, if you can please explain to me how the ACA works in plain English, I would find it very helpful. That inch plus thick document has me a bit bewildered, especially the part about real estate sales tax.
The pledge of allegiance is not a contractual agreement between a citizen and it's government. Perhaps look up the oath of citizenship that immigrants have to contractually swear to.

What you said every morning at school has no impact in real life. Unless you think it went on your "permanent record". LOL!
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Old 20-10-2013, 16:07   #81
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Sure you know, it has been all over the news of late. And if you choose not to "buy" in they fine you, just for being born......
So again, what does this post have anything to do with my point that children don't swear a legal oath to America on condition of citizenship.

The fact that you troll the Internet and use any stupid reason to attack ACA tells me all I need to know about you as a person, a citizen and a cognitive thinker.

Cheers pal
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Old 20-10-2013, 16:41   #82
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Let's stay away from the political stuff. Anymore and this thread gets closed.
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Old 20-10-2013, 17:00   #83
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Re: Cuba for Americans ?

MB-
"Again, how has a baby born in a country sworn allegiance?
Pretty sure no us born citizen has sworn allegiance to America unless they volunteered for federal service. "

Well, if you went to a grade school in the US you said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning in Assembly, didn't you?

And the Sovereign claimed rights over you, at the moment of your birth on sovereign soil or by parental citizenship. If you didn't reject that claim...Yes Ma'am, you were claimed as property and under the law, if you didn't revolt, you still are property of the sovereign that claimed you.

It is like one of those "negative subscription options" that magazines and telesales use. Except, it happens to be the law. You think you have no obligations from that? Wait till you get a summons for jury duty, or a draft notice [per Title 10 US Code which compels nearly universal mandatory service] to find out that when a sovereign says "YOU BELONG TO ME" you don't have the option of ignoring the sovereign.

[abv- this is law, legal status, and explaining how the legality of citizenship works. Please don't confuse it with politics, the two are entirely different.]
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Old 20-10-2013, 19:23   #84
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So again, what does this post have anything to do with my point that children don't swear a legal oath to America on condition of citizenship. The fact that you troll the Internet and use any stupid reason to attack ACA tells me all I need to know about you as a person, a citizen and a cognitive thinker. Cheers pal
I suggest you put me on ignore then for insulting you much maligned and oh so good ACA. Grow a thicker skin.

To be to more to the point. You can't go to Cuba because it's a law and we even have to follow the law even if it is made without our consent.

Interesting factoid, I myself never registered for selective service because I enlisted before required age. One the the HMC's were I in processed was a draftee though.

Another fact, those people writing those bloated and confining laws a no smarter than you or me. There is no magic pill, it is what it is.
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Old 20-10-2013, 19:50   #85
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Re: Cuba for Americans ?

Issues of sovereignty or "loyalty" aside, when you agree to take a passport, you are agreeing to comply with that nations laws/rules about using the passport.
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Old 20-10-2013, 20:44   #86
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Re: Cuba for Americans ?

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" the color of my passport shouldn't dictate "

Perhaps not, but when you pledged allegiance to a sovereign, you made a bargain to accept their rules along with their sovereignty. That doesn't prevent you from trying to change the rules, but yes, those rules do dictate many things.

Unlike some countries, a US citizen is of course always free to leave. Although the tax men are having words about that too now, in terms of what else can leave with you.

Of course some of us jaywalk every day, too.
damn dude....i can't even begin to tell you how much is wrong with your post - nor would you listen anyway i'm guessing.

i'm thinking you're the type of guy who thinks crew cuts never went out of style, johnny unitas was one of the greatest americans to ever live and it's every american's duty to stomp out the red menace because it's a threat to the american way of life.

good luck with that. sorry to tell you i laugh like hell at the people who put of flags on july 4th to celebrate their freedom. nonetheless - i do respect your right to say what you want. just as i'm sure you'll respect my right to say what i want.

as for pledging allegiance to a sovereign...the only sovereign i've ever pledged allegiance to is myself. they made me pledge allegiance to a flag until i was 8 or 9 in public school, but i write that off as 'under duress' now that i'm an adult and realize how ridiculous allegiance to a piece of fabric is in LIFE.

regards.
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