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Old 27-07-2011, 18:39   #16
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

thh:

Glad to see you are carrying an Eldridge it will help you not only with Hell Gate but also with your trip through Long Island Sound:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: FROM BIANKA'S BOOK SHELF: ELDRIDGE TIDE AND PILOT BOOK

I've always made the trip toward Long Island Sound by arriving at the Battery (southern tip of Manhattan) around two hours after low tide at the Battery. If you look at the diagrams in the Eldridge starting at that time you can see that you will have a fair current for your trip up the East River. I would not worry about trying to get through Hell Gate at slack tide. It's not that treachous these days. Might be a little choppy for a couple of hundred feet around the Gate and currents may move the boat around a bit. But, just keep a good hand on the wheel and you be fine. As others have said keep Roosevelt Island to starboard and Manhattan on your port side. Don't go on the eastern side of Roosevelt Island there is a bridge there that can make your mast fall down and go boom! I always get a kick when my boat is moving faster than the traffic on the East River Drive. Enjoy the trip!
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Old 27-07-2011, 18:41   #17
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Originally Posted by thh
Good point and I do understand this. I also understand the relationsship between the two. But in this case -it's Hell Gate - this seems to be a little different and that is probably also why the eldridge reports the current for this location - so what do you go by - the tidal situation or the current?
I'm not sure sorry. The break point where the 3confluences merge is wards island you are best to be there at slack just my experience. If wards island time is x low water enter the east river an hour give or take before x slack low wards island. The relationship is with 3 long island sound east river and Harlem river. It's some weird water I think the Harlem is what adds the extra here. I went through in a power boat once and it was screwy off slack. maybe Eldridge has a heads up on something different. Been through many times and I go with my opinion. The east river along Roosevelt carries more current then the long island side. You get a free lift into slack tide the you will buck a tad of current long island side. Maybe someone has a different experience but I think most sail boats try this approach
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Old 27-07-2011, 19:21   #18
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

Maybe on the way back....
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Old 27-07-2011, 19:22   #19
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

The general consensus is to head up two hours after low tide at the battery which is pretty consistent with sebray's timing. I've arrived later..catching the full push through the gate..just keep the pointy end up river and a firm hand on the wheel.

With the push..you can get through the 15 mile passage in 2 hours..

My 2011 eldridge is on the boat, but my laptop agrees with sebray's timing.

I've never notice the inconsistencies that you're pointing out. But, looking at the 2010 eldridge.. I see what you're saying. I'm going to have to figure this one out.

I went through last week..and hit it perfectly coming down. did a loop around Hart Island just to kill some time while waiting for the turn at HG. I had never seen Hell Gate so calm. I think it's the 1st time I've actually hit it at slack.

Interesting History re: Hart Island...now the potters field for the City.
The inmates from Rikers do the burials.

I've never gone around the brother islands always through..it's very straight forward...just line up the reds and greens..I think there are 2 each... The big ships go around....make sure you check your rear view mirror....If you're following a barge up...and you go through the brothers, he'll come out from behind the big Is.

Have a great trip...
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Old 28-07-2011, 07:37   #20
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

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Eldridge is not wrong........Most folks just do not understand that TIDE (the height of the water) and CURRENT (the velocity and direction of flow) are two different things, and do not neccessaraly coincide
+1 Current is the issue not state of tide. This is the case in many places -- Cape Cod Canal, Chesapeake and Delaware Canal, some places on the ICW ... -- why try to force state of tide information into a guess at current when current information is available directly?
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Old 28-07-2011, 17:50   #21
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

Tide data or current data can consistantly provide your best timing. These are the commonly accepted axioms:

Eastbound with the flood (from the Hudson to Long Island Sound) Depart the Battery to proceed toward Hell Gate two hours after low tide at the Battery.

Westbound with the ebb (from Long Island Sound to the Hudson) depart from the Throgs Neck Bridge at slack current before the flood at Throgs Neck. **I change this a little and prefer leaving Throgs Neck for Hell Gate one hour earlier than this time.
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Old 29-07-2011, 23:24   #22
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I am bad sometimes I say riding tide when in fact I mean current. At hellgate I'm old school and the cosching from people who have done it is what I have used.it has worked. Maybe it's out of date but it does work. I have hit hellgate at low tide flood tied in and ebb tide out. Go figure makes mo sense. Looking at a single point of current is not good enough here. When I get home I want to look at this more as it is intersting and I don't understand all the forces. I do know that what I have done has worked. I always try to give a live experience. C and d canal is very different. There is a good window with slack current and slack tide not a great issue. Just went through and hit it dead on caught upper bay with assisted current right through the canal never bucked a current. Some old school crap works. If it were my first time maybe it's luck. If you want to say do this them explain that when you did it it worked really well. I'm game for learning something new. I think everyone who had said the padded through used a time proven method like I did and have. Maybe next time I'll try something different need to look at it mow that it's an issue.
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Old 30-07-2011, 06:47   #23
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

Good thread. I know I will make that passage within the year and following the suggestions on the chart, seeing why they said to do what they said really helped. Thanks.

I do have one question. Going on the west side of Roosevelt Island can be restricted by the activities at the U.N. How do you find out what level of restriction in effect?
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Old 30-07-2011, 07:28   #24
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

The Weekly CG " Local Notice to Mariners" will have that. You can subscibe here:

Local Notice to Mariners - USCG Navigation Center
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Old 30-07-2011, 07:51   #25
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Originally Posted by CaptForce
Tide data or current data can consistantly provide your best timing. These are the commonly accepted axioms:

Eastbound with the flood (from the Hudson to Long Island Sound) Depart the Battery to proceed toward Hell Gate two hours after low tide at the Battery.

Westbound with the ebb (from Long Island Sound to the Hudson) depart from the Throgs Neck Bridge at slack current before the flood at Throgs Neck. **I change this a little and prefer leaving Throgs Neck for Hell Gate one hour earlier than this time.
That is what I do from throgs neck 1 hour maybe 45 minutes early. Interested if anyone has been in here at the worst time. No idea what that would be. I pushed a power boat through off slack can't remember how far off but the area by wards island was pretty wild whirlpools boiling water. So who's been through using a different timing method then the conventional. Anyone gone through and seen it really bad scarey bad?
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Old 30-07-2011, 09:43   #26
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

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Originally Posted by Tempest245 View Post
The Weekly CG " Local Notice to Mariners" will have that. You can subscibe here:

Local Notice to Mariners - USCG Navigation Center

Thanks!

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Old 30-07-2011, 12:36   #27
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

The whole area, from Hudson to The Race, requires a lot of planning if you are to catch the tides just right. I have done the trip in both directions many times. As someone mentioned above, use the graphics pages for your planning. The times are based on High water at the Battery and currents at the Race (for LI Sound). What I do is to use a set of dividers set to the scale on the graphics and plot my position ON THE ELDRIDGE drawing, hour to hour, using estimated boat speed. Note that the East River currents are pretty accurate in Eldridge, not so for The Race/Fishers I/LI Sound which can vary considerably.
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Old 02-08-2011, 15:12   #28
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

heading south thru long island sound do most cruisers lay overnite before heading into hells gate if so any suggestions
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Old 02-08-2011, 15:16   #29
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

do most cruisers heading south thru long island sound lay overnite before entering hells gate if so ang suggestions
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Old 02-08-2011, 15:31   #30
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Re: Crossing Hell Gate

Going SOUTH, LI Sound to NY Harbor, if you time the current just right you can go all the way from Port Jefferson, through the East River and into NY Harbor all in one day. If then going UP the Hudson, you'll have to lay over a few hours either behind the Statue of Liberty or up at the 79?th St. Boat Basin, to which you'll have to buck a strong current. I usually make it from PJ to Nyack all in one day, doing my hull speed of around 6 knots plus help from favorable currents. Usually get up to Nyack after dark but would go another few miles to Haverstraw in a NE wind. If you're headed for Jersey, you'll have good current all the way until just before Sandy Hook. Having the sails up can be a great sail in the Sound and if you get a good SWerly late in the day going up the Hudson.
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