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Old 15-03-2012, 17:32   #1
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CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

Looking to purchase CO2 Cartridges for our SOSpender lifevests (2 needed) 38 gram. Any ideas near Oyster Pond? Or on the way from the airport? Thank You. Arriving on Friday March 16th.
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Old 15-03-2012, 19:05   #2
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

Island Water World and Budget Marine are not very far off your route from SXM to Oyster Pond. You can check out their catalogs on the Internet.
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Old 15-03-2012, 19:58   #3
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

Thank you. I think I'll give budget marine a try. I didn't see our model in the catalog, but maybe they'll have the cartridges. Otherwise we will just have to manually inflate if we end up in the drink, on the rocks, or straight up.
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Old 16-03-2012, 02:54   #4
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

You're aware that TSA allows them on flights? Individual airlines may set their own policy on them, but they don't rummage through your luggage like the TSA does.
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Old 16-03-2012, 13:26   #5
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

What exact model SOSpenders lifevest do you have? I am heading to Island Waterworld and Budget Marine this afternoon and can check for you.
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Old 16-03-2012, 13:30   #6
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

"You're aware that TSA allows them on flights? "
Not quite. The TSA allows them, SUBEJCT TO THE DISCRETION of the inspector and supervisor at the airport. And subject to airline policy.

So if you are flying out of an airport that has one of the better dog and pony shows, the carts will not be allowed. By the discretion and order of the local personnel. And there is no appeal to that.

The cart could easily be filled with sarin gas, there's no way it can be declared "safe" without opening it. Do I think that's extreme and petty? Sure, what else is new about dog and pony shows?
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Old 16-03-2012, 14:13   #7
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

I may be driving that way tomorrow to go to Ace Hardware. I think that IWW has a better supply. By the way my boats out of the water for bottom paint - I live in that tall builing accross the Pond.
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Old 16-03-2012, 14:41   #8
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"You're aware that TSA allows them on flights? "
Not quite. The TSA allows them, SUBEJCT TO THE DISCRETION of the inspector and supervisor at the airport. And subject to airline policy.

So if you are flying out of an airport that has one of the better dog and pony shows, the carts will not be allowed. By the discretion and order of the local personnel. And there is no appeal to that.

The cart could easily be filled with sarin gas, there's no way it can be declared "safe" without opening it. Do I think that's extreme and petty? Sure, what else is new about dog and pony shows?
HS, where'd you find the part in red above? The TSA rules are very clear and specific about compressed gas cartridges for life vests being allowed in carry-on and checked luggage. Here's what they say on their website...

Small compressed gas cartridges
(Up to 2 in life vests and 2 spares.
The spares must accompany the life vests and presented as one unit)
Carry-on - yes
Checked - yes

As I noted in my post, above, the airlines can set their own policy, but I've never had anyone from the airline ask about or physically check what's in my luggage. They rely on the TSA.
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Old 16-03-2012, 16:33   #9
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

Hud, ALL TSA regulations are subject to, and overriden by, the inspectors on site. That's the way it has always been. There is no specific "override" regarding the gas cylinders, it applies to everything.

Is that wrong? Quite possibly, but it is how the little lords all behave.

I've had the TSA tell me that the inspectors are hired by and supervised by the airline whose terminal they work at, while the airline says they are TSA personnel and the airline has nothing to do with it.

Bottom line? FUD. That's the way they want it and the way they play it, and if you contest the nice man on the line, they'll take you to the little room for an interview and cavity search. That's the threat to keep you in line, along with simply delaying you long enough to miss your flight--in which case, you'll have to buy a replacement ticket at substantial "last minute" cost, no liability accepted by the TSA or airline.

If you've never had anyone from an airline ask you about your luggage...You never flew before 2001? In the days when they ALWAYS asked "Have you left your luggage alone? Did you pack it yourself? Has it been out of your sight? Are you carrying a gift or anything from anyone else?"

Last time a ticket agent asked me all that, I told her up front, look, I want YOU to fly ME there and back. I don't want your plane, if I wanted your plane I'd take your plane, but I just don't want this kind of plane, I want to take a nap while you fly. Now, when's the last time your pilot had a psych workup?"

Literally. (You may not remember, EgyptAir? supposedly had a co-pilot crash the plane into the Atlantic while the pilot was in the head, about 10 years ago.)

Yeah, commercial aviation.

Remember the Pakistani woman, arrested in West Virginia about three years ago because she was carrying an empty soda bottle that tested positive for liquid explosives? That was all over the national nooze. But only two small-town papers carried the story the next day, that she was released after lab testing showed....wait for it...just traces of water in her water bottle.

Meanwhile, the whole country was told those brave TSA men stopped some nasty Muslim with liquid explosives. Instead of "TSA screwup shuts entire airport for 1/2 day."

Same guys. Same policies. No apologies when they screw up.
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Old 16-03-2012, 17:50   #10
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

I flew with cartridges in a man overboard kit without a problem last month on USAir. In checked luggage.
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Old 17-03-2012, 05:07   #11
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

HS,

Sounds a bit over the top to me. Never had any problems even close to what you're going on about.

Anyway the OP didn't really ask about flying with CO2 cartridges, just where to find them in St Maarten, so I guess we're off-topic.

p.s pre-2001 doesn't count anymore.
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Old 17-03-2012, 07:40   #12
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

Since the OP's question has been answered, I'd like to add that I've flown several times with my inflatable without problems. Also, there have been several threads about TSA and their attitudes. I travel quite a bit and must be really, really lucky because I don't seem to run into the bad ones. If you understand the proceedures and follow them, there really isn't any problem with them.

Becuase I bring a lot of boat gear with me I usually watch them scan my bags when I can. Once I had a brand new cordless high output flashlight I was bringing with me. The guy who scanned the bag pulled it out, turned it on, then called his supervisor. They both looked at it and I said "What's the problem". They said that with the output of the light, if it accidentaly turned on the heat generated could cause a fire. I replied "You know, that actually makes sense - throw it away or take it home".

I appreciate the job these guys are doing.
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Old 17-03-2012, 09:07   #13
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

See, here's the problem with having a dog and pny show instead of security:
"The guy who scanned the bag pulled it out, turned it on, then "
Then the suspect device detonated, sending shrapnel through the room and injuring 50 people.

If you don't know what it is, you DON'T OPERATE IT. If it IS a suspect device, your crude attempt to inspect it probably will set off a booby trap or the device itself, causing massive damage.

I can't appreciate untrained guys endangering me that way. Last time someone opened my suspicious laptop bag, rather than asking me to open it, I told him point blank "You realize that if there was anything to be worried about in there, you might have just detonated it and killed us all?" His face went white for a minute as he realized what he had just done, and why his training was INCORRECT and DANGEROUS. If you're going to open a suspicious device--do it like the pros do, in a secure area, NOT IN A CROWDED ROOM.

If your flashlight can accidentally be turned on--that's a bad design. But a piece of paper placed over the battery contacts is one of many ways to safe that for storage and travel.


Hud, I've had the pleasure of having a TSA inspector throw a full scale conniption because I had missed a PENNY in my pants pocket, and his metal detector kept going off. One penny. Which neither of us felt during a pat-down.

SeaTac, LaGuardia, JFK, FLL, MIA...there are a number of places where security tends to be on the paranoid side. Heck, in some of them they do extra random "gate checks" and reinspect passengers at the boarding gate--after the primary inspection--just to see what they missed.

Really, what's all the fuss about? 9/11 did not happne because of a lack of passenger screening. It happened because US airline industry policy was sub-par compared to the rest of the world at that time.

In 2001, three "third world" airlines were attempted hijacked. In all cases, the cabin door was locked and kept locked and the aircraft immediately put on the ground while an air marshal dealt with the threat. GLOBAL policy was "keep the door locked, land the aircraft immediately" and that's all it takes to prevent an aircraft from being used as a bomb. The US carriers were aware of this, and chose not to follow the standard of security. ALL THE REST has been a dog and pony show.

And yes, the entire US airline industry was well aware that aricraft could be used as bombs. You may recall a best-selling Tom Clancy novel and movie that had been out 20(?) years earlier, where most of our Executive branch was wiped out by "bombing" the Capitol Building during the State of the Union address the same way. You'll now also notice that the entire executive branch no longer attends the SOTU address, specifically since that threat was pointed out by Mr. Clancy.

The airline industry? Nope, couldn't admit their liability, couldn't admit they ignored global standards. Gives us dogs and ponies instead.

I'm glad you've found more lenient inspectors and airports. I'll keep packing my PFD in the checked luggage instead. With the cart removed, to make sure some dummy doesn't pull the cord just to "see what this does".

Really, ask someone with explosive ordnance experience. You never, never, "see what this does" or "see if this works". Because one day, IT WILL.

BTW, here's the absolute prohibition on sealed compressed gas cylinders direct from the TSA:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...essed_gas.shtm

If they allow PFDs in conflict with their own ban...ask yourself why the CO2 bottles on PFDs aren't called out and exempted on this page. You may also note that on the main page for travelers regarding prohibited items, the TSA also says that TSOs (the agents) may prohibit items which are not on the prohibited list. Yes, they give the local agents full discretion, and like most agencies, the supervisor is not going to lose face by overruling his staff.

It is sadder still, because (we'll never have to make a water landing, they used to say) the airline issued life vests really are chokers if you ever try to wear one in the water. Literally. Next time the flight crew demo them for you, you'll notice they've cut open the front seam, so they can FIT over a larger head and neck.

Nice doggy. Good pony. Wonderful show.
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Old 17-03-2012, 10:42   #14
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

Let's close this thread.
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Old 17-03-2012, 16:35   #15
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Re: CO2 Cartridges in St. Maarten

Sorry to open up the can of worms. Have several at home, but never thought they would be allowed on a plane after noted past history. I totally enjoyed all responses thank you.
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