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Old 05-04-2018, 11:53   #1
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Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Good afternoon.

We have a Tartan 33 and we are usually sailing week-end trip in the area. (meaning always daylight)

Since we have a week off end of April, we are planning a trip down to Cape Sable and possible the Keys (I was looking the area of Johnson Key). Our marina is Burnt Store, east of Charlotte Harbor.

I possibly can go there anchoring each night (south of Sanibel / Marcos Island / Cape Sable / Keys) or sailing larger legs and obviously, in this case, sailing at night. I am tempted by the experience of night sailing. One because we never did it and secondly because i can spend more time in our final destination.

I usually don't motor so I am counting all my time based on a 4 kts average speed (hopefully we have ideal wind and go faster but...). I am counting between 24-30 hours to Cape Sable. Like 35 for the keys.

We are 3 people on board.

Any advice for a new night sailor?

PS: I have no radar. Just my eyes !
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:29   #2
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Boy, there's no end to the information that a new cruiser could get on this topic. A few brief things for "a new night sailor:"

On the voyage south, stay generally outside the 3 mile line. It will minimize channel markers, crab pots, fishing boats with no lights, pleasure boats driven at extreme speed by coke-head baseball players (sorry), and other things that might be best to avoid. Minimize, but not eliminate. You'll still have to keep a good watch, and crab pots are probably your biggest problem (likewise, for the crabs...);

I like 2 hour watches. I really think 4 hour watches are a lot to ask from non-professionals, and they run the risk of someone falling asleep. You'll probably be sleeping intermittently anyway, so 2 on/4 off (for your crew of 3) is really not a problem, and it allows you to establish a nice routine;

The method I use for not falling asleep, and it's never failed me, is this: never lean on anything. You can stand or sit, but as long as you are not leaning on anything, if you fall asleep (and you will), you'll fall over, and that will wake you. I find it much easier to discipline myself to just not lean on anything (at which you can always be successful) than trying to discipline myself to not fall asleep (which can be pretty much out of your control, especially on 4 hour watches);

Reef before dark. Don't be lulled into thinking that the weather is nice in the evening so you don't have to worry. The weather comes in a hurry in that region, and especially at night, it's better to be ready;

Have a man overboard plan. And then, don't go overboard. Always your best option. At night, especially when you're alone, you really should wear a harness and tether, and always if you leave the cockpit at night, or if the weather is snarly;

Don't be afraid to rouse one of your crewmates if you need help. They'll catch up on sleep later.

I hope that helps you. Most of all, enjoy!!! Pete
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Old 05-04-2018, 13:10   #3
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Thank you Pete. Very useful.

Indeed I was tracing my route off the coast. Crab Pot is one of my main worry. Even during the day there are sometimes annoying...to say so...but I love crabs so hard to blame them . Harness and life jacket are also in the list.

We have been speaking about the watch, and since it is a short trip, we are most likely going to go for a 2 people watch during the night. Also, we will calculate our time (based on wind forecast) to arrive during the day.

I also purchased a bunch of red light (we only had one) to avoid the lost of night
vision.

C.
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Old 05-04-2018, 13:27   #4
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Everyone will have their own preferences. Mine are:

If at all possible travel during fuller moons. It really helps in spatial orientation

Never leave the companionway at night without harness attached. Period.

Two in the cockpit at night. One can sleep, but it helps to reduce anxiety

You will hit crabpots. As long as the owner didnt use unweighted or poly propylene rope you shouldn’t snag it. Don’t care how far offshore you are.

An autopilot is nearly required. Done it many times handsteering but it gets really old.
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Old 05-04-2018, 16:24   #5
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

If you only have a week off and want to go to south of Cape Sable and spend more than 2 days there, I would plan on motoring all the way, day or night, down and back. Do you carry enough fuel for the down and back??

Once you leave Boca Grande Pass, head due south and cut in when you get past Shark River.
Suggest you keep going to Marathon for a better experience and anchorage based upon weather / wind.
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Old 05-04-2018, 16:29   #6
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

We have made the trip from Tampa Bay to the Keys a few times. If you only have a week, as in seven days, your stay in the keys will probably be very short.

On our last trip in January, on our return trip, we got stuck in Marco Island for three days waiting for a cold front to pass. Of course this time of year cold fronts are less frequent.

Funny story, on our first overnight passage from Goodland to Marathon, at around 3:00 am we started seeing flashing red lights, all over the place. Chartplotter showed none....... Slowed the boat, looked at paper charts, still confused. Next morning, in daylight, discovered there are four really, really tall radio towers in Marathon. They each have four flashing red lights..........

You have been warned...
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Old 05-04-2018, 18:17   #7
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

I’ve sailed from both Burnt Store and Cabbage Key to Key West, Indian Key areas a number of times. Great sailing to both. Usually took us about 24 hours from Cabbage Key to Key West in IP380. If you are on a schedule you will always have the wind on the nose- both ways. Plan on motorsailing if you only have a week. Only once in many trips did we have a beam reach at 20 knots and that was a great sail back from Key West. Didn’t have to trim much from the north channel Buoy at Key West to Green 3 at Boca Grande Pass.
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Old 05-04-2018, 19:40   #8
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Thank you guys. Very useful feedback and advices !

It is true than 7 days it is not very much...

I think i can manage the motoring in term of fuel (storing a few extra tanks) but never pushed the engine so much time . We usually use it to go in and out the marina or anchorage.

Preparing the trip, we found maybe the option of the 10.000 islands where some of the anchorages seems accessible with our draft (4.6). We do not know the area neither so maybe it is good option. We can sail there and spend more time.

Looking at the some videos the place looks amazing and off the grid. We still can have our night sailing experience going down (I am counting around 15h to Marcos Island and an other 6-7h to a first anchorage in the 10.000 islands). From there we still have a viable option to Cape Sable.

In all cases, we are starting to prepare the boat to be off grid for 7 days. Just bought a few more water tank to store on the deck.

By the way this is our old lady in Cayo Costa. We have the boat since December and we really are enjoying the area !



C.
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:15   #9
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Quote:
Originally Posted by maijipo View Post
(I was looking the area of Johnson Key).
The Johnson Key inside ENP?
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:33   #10
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

maijipo--

If your objective is the Keys, the trip from your locale is really pretty easy. From the outside anchorage just east of Little Sanibel Island in San Carlos Bay (just northwest of the entry to Ft. Myers Beach at Bowditch Point Park) to the Galleon Marina in Key West is only 118 miles. From Burnt Store Marina to the San Carlos Bay anchorage is only 21 miles if you travel down the inside route on the east side of Little Pine Island, so you can easily do that in the early evening before the day of your departure.

While you indicate that your speed is normally only 4 knots, as a practical matter your boat can easily average 5 knots under sail or motor sailing if necessary to maintain that speed. With your engine, I suspect your fuel burn is in the range of .5 to .75 gallons per hour such that, with your fuel capacity (normally about 26 gallons on the T-33), you have more than enough fuel, even maintaining a 5 gallon reserve in the tank, to motor sail from San Carlos Bay to Key West.

Your longest leg, from the outer marker at San Carlos Bay to Smith Shoal Light, is about 102 miles or 21 hours on a heading of 183º (M). You'll want to arrive there after sunrise (around 0700 at the end of April) so your departure from San Carlos should be timed at around 0930-1000. There are no hazards along that route so you'll only have to keep your eyes out for traffic.

Assuming you have a decent weather window for the week of your travel, the only weather you're likely to confront are a few squalls coming off the Everglades south of Cape Romano. During the day you'll see them of course. After sunset, absent radar to track them, you'll have to use your senses. The first sign of an on-coming squall will be a cool, persistent breeze, from the direction of the squall. Unless there is a heavy overcast in general, the squall will block out your view of the sky/stars so even in the dead of night, you can "see" the squall's position by the "black spot" in an otherwise starry sky. When we have concerns about squalls after dark, we generally tie in a first reef at sunset but, if you haven't done that, the breeze tells you it's time for a reef and to furl your headsail. The good news is that most squalls are of fairly short duration, less than 30 minutes in most cases, so they're easily managed and in some cases can give you a burst of speed in the right direction. Of course, get everyone not needed, below deck and get your foulies on and harness and tether snapped on.

Interestingly, it is often easier to spot traffic at night than during daylight as one can generally pick up another boat's lights in the dark much further away than one can seem them during the day. Just watch the relative bearing of the lights and don't hesitate to shift your course if necessary. A little adjustment early on is better than a more radical course change later. The most traffic we've ever encountered after dark are the shrimp boats that, with trawls out, will not alter course for anyone's money! Learn the lights. In addition to normal running lights, fishing boats display all around lights at their tallest mast head. Remember the mnemonics "Red over White--I'm fishing tonight" and "Green over White--I'm trawling tonight". With that, just stay out of their way.

The toughest part of a night passage is sleep. My (much) better half and I trade off 3 hour watches although one can call the other at any time they feel the need. In questionable weather, I'll sleep on the leeward cockpit bench although, if your partner's a "Chatty Kathy", you'll have to convince them to keep still and let you rest.

Th foregoing sounds more demanding than it really is and arriving in Key West in the morning is really quite rewarding--especially a shore side breakfast prepared by someone else!

FWIW...
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Old 06-04-2018, 09:22   #11
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

I used to live at Burnt Store and made that trip quite often, first in a little Columbia 26 with no engine, later a Rob 35. I found it easiest (and most interesting) to head down to Ft Meyers beach and anchor there, then sail for the Dry Tortugas.

"Reef at night" is a funny thing to say, Reef when you need to, keep the power in the boat, a boat wallowing with not enough sail up is not comfortable at all.

A day or so in the tortugas, then an easy trip to Key West. Coming home I would leave Key west heading north (a number of shoals to watch out for the first part of the way) then often stop at Shark River if I needed a break I was often by myself, (well had my dog with me but he was not worth anything on watch by himself, but great company as a watchmate).

It is an easy trip, I often carried the chute most of the way down, and sometimes on the way north. Little traffic other than crab boats, easy sailing.

In the winter I would usually do it the other way (Down to key west, then to the tortugas, then north) as the easterlies often blew for weeks on end and the sail from the Tortugas to Key West was a hard beat.



Have fun!

M
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:42   #12
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Hi
I take the trip to the Keys a lit if you want real information and first hand knowledge go to the pump out party on monday morning. Ask the people there . Several of them have made the rip . I will be back the end of may for a trip .
Radar is a must for night sailing . Also I like ais receiver that helps a lot.
Good Luck
Michael
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:44   #13
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Sorry
The pump out party is every Monday morn on Q dock Burnt Store Marina
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:24   #14
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

I have made this trip several times. The only thing I can add is you as captain probably won't sleep anyway. I never can the first 24 hours. After that I can sleep.
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Old 06-04-2018, 13:08   #15
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Re: Charlotte Harbor to Cape Sable / Keys

Sailing around the Gulf, between Clearwater and Sarasota Crab Pots are my nemesis,,,
My diver, while cleaning my bottom, found fishing net wrapped around my shaft, by the strut, a few months ago,

As additional security, to my shaft I added a ----
Sea Shield Marine’s new SALCA (sacrificial anode line cutter assembly) solves two problems in one: corrosion and line entanglement. Available in both zinc and aluminum, the SALCA has a stainless steel cutting edge that slices through errant lines while protecting your propeller shaft and other metal parts from galvanic degradation.

inexpensive - 1" diameter was $40 or so,

worth considering,

safe trip,
MOCHA
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