carribean vs the other side

[neilpride]

But but!!!! he hit the nail in one thing, Caribbean food putting apart some French Islands is Junk , and expensive ... the rest is just LoL..

[zboss]

This is a broad generalization but IMO if you act like a sucker in front of someone with something to sell (or desired to sell) you will be treated like a sucker. If you show respect you will generally get respect.

With that said, some people in the caribbean are very very rude. I was shopping on Tortola a few weeks past and I was going down the food isle where there was plenty of room for two (think grocery isle). The guy coming the other direction pushed his cart in front of me (a guy I never had seen or met before) and said "Oh sorry your white majesty". I was like "what just happened"?

So, not all people are nice. On the other hand, on the same day I had a woman prevent me from missing my ferry. She went out of her way to disembark the boat - risking missing the ferry herself- and go and find me to get me on the boat.

Don't be a sucker, treat others with respect, and be nice. That's it.

[redhead]

Originally Posted by edmundsteele

Me think him vocabulary too good. Know how spell Vanuatu even. Him troll or movie extra. Maybe watch too many Tarzan flicks.
Tonto

I think you're right. I just re read it and can't find a single spelling error either. Unusual for anyone, let alone someone who would have us believe English might be his second language from the phrasing. Someone thinks they're having fun....

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

Yes, Americans have the same attitude too. Im taking my own habits on a case by case basis. But its really a catch 22. Ever since the first explorers and missionaries there have been irreversible changes to native cultures. We are responsible for the loss of culture. But 200 + years on we can not force the genii back into the bottle to asuage our conscience. It would be lovely if native peoples everywhere could persue the sustaining life they have historically led. But natural resources are now stressed. Is forcing native people to lead this life in a natural world that can no longer truely sustain them really the best thing? Or is this ideal really forcing people into a different kind of poverty? Who are we to decide anyway? Thats awfully arrogant.

Your post is the definition of "white guilt." You've got it all wrong, backwards and up side down.

Where ever I've traveled, the local people want the same stuff.... cellphones, clothes, food, TV etc just like everyone else. Who Are you to suggest they be denied the modern conveniences that you enjoy? Chasing down pigs in the wild is dangerous work, seems to me that the natives would much rather stroll down to the supermarket like everyone else to buy pork, and for that... They need cash.

[Bulawayo]

I was, frankly, surprised by the statments made. Yes, the Caribbean is expensive. However, the choice to go is ours, just as the choice to leave is. I have not experienced any particular antagonism anywhere due to not throwing money away.
I do take issue with the slavery point (that old pineapple). If someone is willing to pay the $5 for a menial job and someone is happy to fulfill the task how can that be called slavery? I would say that is a matter of two parties undertaking an agreement. It can enable both parties to get what they each want.
We made lots of friends all over the Caribbean without flashing the cash - just as we have everywhere.
I suspect that there is more to the visa denial than not having an 'evil' engine. I certainly have never heard of such, including from the Pardey's.
Most odd.

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

It is good to visit the carribean to put things in perspective. This allows me to appreciate the other side more. What I can't understand is why there are so many people sailing here and so few over there.

What I can say is the carribean is full of boats. This definitely spoils it. For example, the price of food is more or less 4x higher for everything and the variety in the market much lower.

The biggest factor for me is the local people. In the carribean I don't like most of the people I met, but in indonesia I really did.

The funny thing is, people with very huge boats like lagoon (or anything above 40ft) often remark the opposite perspective. In indonesia or similar places they will get hustled a lot.

In the carribean I think these same people like it maybe because they enjoy enslaving the locals with their money by paying them $5 to do things for them like bring them water or take their trash. This is similar to slavery by reinforcing that they are not on an equal level.

This is to such an extent that some local people "boat boys" survive off this, and make it their "occupation" They now expect all foreigners to have money to pay them for services. Other locals often become hostile if you decide to walk down the beach with empty pockets.

In indonesia and vanuatu, the local people understand and respect me for being engine free. Many people there told me it was a good thing and they were happy to see this. In the carribean, the local people tell me that I am wrong for not having this evil and should install a "6hp outboard". This is not one person on one island, but 4 different people on 3 different islands. For this reason I was given only 7 days visa in st vincent by the immigration in chateubellair and denied extension in bequia. I was forced to miss sailing the grenadines.

I have had more bad experiences in the carribean in 2 months than everywhere else (except new zealand which has many horrible people as well) after traveling nearly 7 years.

In vanuatu the locals on various islands often explained that they don't like the style of excessive boats. For this reason they invite me to custom dance for free, and give me free fruits, and tour the island hunting trips etc. This seems to annoy some people on larger boats when I told them because they were forced to pay. This is a good thing. I gave some locals in vanuatu my bicycle, a solar panel and battery, teach their kids how to use a soldering iron and how to wire it to play music etc... They take me to their garden and dig up 2 months of food so I sail to philippines. In phillipines, I go on local boats fishing, and they insist I keep what I catch, and they are only glad to have me along to make their life more interesting. In indonesia I can build a tree swing in the school with rope from brunei, all the kids are playing and they run around and collect mushrooms for me. I fixed some kids bicycle etc and they are happy to share what rice they grow and show me around the island. I have many more examples.

In the carribean these things just aren't possible because the people are corrupted. In fact, they drive motor boats and cars here in a wasteful and dangerous way. You cannot offer them anything besides money this is all they care about, and anything else is "an insult" and "disrespect"

Unfortunately these same locals do not like me much because I am not a means for them to profit off of. I cannot make any friends with locals here despite my best efforts, I must keep to myself. I think these are possibly the most ignorant people in the world. I could go on for several pages supporting this conclusion.

On the bright side, there is fast wifi which is free, where in philippines I had to pay $1 for 24 hours, or 5 cents for 15 minutes of internet at the same speed. It is also easy to meet more people on other boats because there are so many of them.

Now I am dreaming about the other side.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Your post is the definition of "white guilt." You've got it all wrong, backwards and up side down.

Where ever I've traveled, the local people want the same stuff.... cellphones, clothes, food, TV etc just like everyone else. Who Are you to suggest they be denied the modern conveniences that you enjoy? Chasing down pigs in the wild is dangerous work, seems to me that the natives would much rather stroll down to the supermarket like everyone else to buy pork, and for that... They need cash.

Go back aand re-read. I never said I felt this way. Im on your side. I pose a few rhetorical questions but I do not say this is right. In fact, I state that wanting native peoples to live this way is arrogant. Im sorry that meaning did not come out right.

[Ishmael]

Originally Posted by poiu

Just take people as you find them. Don't waste your time with the unfriendly ones. There maybe proportionately less friendliness from the locals than elsewhere, but there are still a lot of nice locals to befriend.

I don't agree that paying the locals as you describe is a form of slavery. Pretty much all money coming from the tourists is vastly more than the locals pay each other. It is they who are taking advantage of us. You have it upside down. And talking of slavery, your ancestors are partly to blame, they, the slave traders have so damaged the black collective consciousness that the wound may never heal fully.

As to the reaction of to your lack of funds. People everywhere give more respect to those who are smartly presented. Don't provoke the authorities. They are sometimes sensitive to people entering without enough money to stay and potentially giving the country the problem of repatriating them at the island's expense. They also don't want vagrants on their smart tourist beaches maybe begging or sleeping rough. Just put on a clean stiff collar shirt with epaulets and a 'captain' badge and wear a peaked cap with lots of gold braid when you visit customs. I guarantee you will have no problems.

Also, if you answer the question when walking down the beach - 'wanna rent a jet-ski' with 'no I have no money' they will think you are a liar and that you are insulting them by thinking they are stupid enough to believe such a lie. After all, it takes many hundred $ to fly in and $hundreds per day just to live there for 99% of tourists. A polite, clear, firm, unambiguous 'no thank you' with a smile works every time for me.

So he should dress like "Captain Obvious" in those commercials?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by flippercarson

This is one of the most *holy-er than thou, self aggrandizing, paint everything with the same brush, giant steaming pile of crap* posts I have ever read on this forum.

You obviously haven't read a lot of the other posts from our dumpster diving friend. It's about par for the course.

[cards26]

What I find is people bring their culture with them from wherever they came from, and expect the new country to be the same. Basically every American, European, Canadian, and Australian, when first coming to Latin America, thought the locals were doing something 'wrong'. Myself included. Live with them for awhile, and you begin to understand why they're like they are.

BTW, that $5 or $10 you give to the local boys for minor work is really appreciated by many who receive it.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by nickfox45

I usually only lurk here, but can't help but chime in. Any chance the OP realizes how hypocritical it is to denigrate and tear down entire groups of people while he accuses others of doing the exact same thing during his travels?

With the OP's complete lack of tolerance for any beliefs but his own, I'm not surprised he's found people not very welcoming. I imagine it was much the same on land before he left!

Agree entirely. Besides, some folks like to be enslaved. Found that out while visiting Amsterdam. Most folks we met after 30 years of cruising were really nice, regardless which ocean we happened to be in that year. Of course we were sailing with three little munchkins which made a vast difference.
A lone male is always suspect, almost anywhere on the earth. At least get a dog so folks know you are not a cannibal.

[wayne.b]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

In the carribean I think these same people like it maybe because they enjoy enslaving the locals with their money by paying them $5 to do things for them like bring them water or take their trash. This is similar to slavery by reinforcing that they are not on an equal level.

This is to such an extent that some local people "boat boys" survive off this, and make it their "occupation" They now expect all foreigners to have money to pay them for services. Other locals often become hostile if you decide to walk down the beach with empty pockets.

===

I suspect this is a troll, otherwise just a bunch of nonsense. Of course you will have issues anywhere if you have no money and are trying to live off the land so to speak.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

Go back aand re-read. I never said I felt this way. Im on your side. I pose a few rhetorical questions but I do not say this is right. In fact, I state that wanting native peoples to live this way is arrogant. Im sorry that meaning did not come out right.

Sorry for the missunderstanding.

[Cap Erict3]

Interesting that the pack animals come together again to attack. Even apologizing to each other for not pointing the attacks in the proper manner.

Being bombarded by the gimme money crowd does get old. Even if a small service is offered.

If sitting in a chaise lounge tossing pennies to the pions tweaks ur self esteem, so be it.

Let he who uses a thesaurus or spell check hang his head in shame. Let those that manage to use the efforts of others to enrich their coffers be elevated in our eyes as the superior beings they wish they were.

Dumpster divers should continue bow to their betters and apologize for their uncouth presence.

[cards26]

One strange thread.

[boatman61]

Whoa Cap Eric... don't count me amongst the 'Pack Animals'.. like the OP I hang out with the locals.. only difference is..
I'm not as far up my own ass as he appears to be.
As for food in the Caribe.. if your looking for burgers.. you'll get a certain amount of *****..
If your looking for real Caribe food.. step outside your comfort zone folks.. visit some rib shacks where your the only white face.. try some 'Journey Cakes'.. Plantain chips and spiced ribs.. not that US crap drowned in barbecue vomit..