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nickfox45 · 28-07-2016, 08:34

I usually only lurk here, but can't help but chime in. Any chance the OP realizes how hypocritical it is to denigrate and tear down entire groups of people while he accuses others of doing the exact same thing during his travels?

With the OP's complete lack of tolerance for any beliefs but his own, I'm not surprised he's found people not very welcoming. I imagine it was much the same on land before he left!

**boatman61** · 28-07-2016, 08:49

Try hanging out in Phillipsburg or Sandy Ground after dark when most have fled to the white side of life..

You'll either make friends or get your head kicked..

A side of ribs, plantain chips and salad for $10 and Presidente a buck a bottle.. and if they like you.. you may even get to hang out at their homes.
Your comparisons don't match up in many ways.. Vanuatu is at least 20yrs away from the commercialism of the Carib in the tourist traps.. but the good folks are still there.. if you bother to look..

Notice your in Dominica.. your definitely doing something wrong bud.. thems nice folk

Dave22q · 28-07-2016, 08:55

There is no such thing as dishonorable or demeaning work. If I pay you to take out the, trash, walk the dog or scrape the hull I am simply saying that I prefer giving up money rather then doing the job myself. That could be because it is beyond my competence, or I find it unpleasant, or maybe just that I want to finish the book I was reading. The worker takes the job because he prefers having the money to not having it. If some ideologue finds the situation upsetting that is his problem not mine.

robert sailor · 28-07-2016, 08:59

We found real nice people throughout the Eastern Caribbean. Enjoyed the experience a lot but now we are in the Western Caribbean and find a lot more culture and tons of wonderful people. We were missing the cultural experiences we were having in the Med when we crossed over to the Caribbean but we have found them again on the Western side.

**a64pilot** · 28-07-2016, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

It would be lovely if native peoples everywhere could persue the sustaining life they have historically led.

I can tell you from travelling around the world for most of my life, the vast majority do not want to live that life you describe. Yeah I know there is all kinds of talk about heritage etc. but Way up North for example right after saying those things, they will throw the high powered rifle across their back and get in the pickup truck, snow machine or in the boat with the outboard and go kill whales, cause that is their culture.

The "Noble Savage" doesn't exist, it's a romantic myth, they are no different than you or I.

redhead · 28-07-2016, 09:09

I lived and worked in Puerto Rico for 6 years, met some snobbish tourists and some snobbish locals.

Same with San Francisco back in the 70's
Same with Manhattan in the 80's
Same here on the West Coast.

The OP is what we used to call a reverse snob.

Go figure. You get back what you give out.

**a64pilot** · 28-07-2016, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave22q

There is no such thing as dishonorable or demeaning work. If I pay you to take out the, trash, walk the dog or scrape the hull I am simply saying that I prefer giving up money rather then doing the job myself. That could be because it is beyond my competence, or I find it unpleasant, or maybe just that I want to finish the book I was reading. The worker takes the job because he prefers having the money to not having it. If some ideologue finds the situation upsetting that is his problem not mine.

If there is one good thing maybe that the Western civilization has exported it's the work ethic, nothing at all wrong with an honest days work.

Sea Dreaming · 28-07-2016, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I can tell you from travelling around the world for most of my life, the vast majority do not want to live that life you describe. Yeah I know there is all kinds of talk about heritage etc. but Way up North for example right after saying those things, they will throw the high powered rifle across their back and get in the pickup truck, snow machine or in the boat with the outboard and go kill whales, cause that is their culture.

The "Noble Savage" doesn't exist, it's a romantic myth, they are no different than you or I.

I agree! "Lovely" is a bit facetious.
Its the idea that tourists dont really want to be where they really are, they want everything to look like their imagination. They dont want to see men in cod pieces listening to ipods, they want the same guy fishing and "living in harmony with nature". The noble savage idea.

Sunsetrider · 28-07-2016, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If there is one good thing maybe that the Western civilization has exported it's the work ethic.

That's just crazy talk!

It strikes me that more often than not "Westerners" pay to have others do the hard work . . . I am thinking also that the common folk in India, China, etc. have a fair idea of what "hard work" truly means.

Dulcesuenos · 28-07-2016, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave22q

There is no such thing as dishonorable or demeaning work. If I pay you to take out the, trash, walk the dog or scrape the hull I am simply saying that I prefer giving up money rather then doing the job myself. That could be because it is beyond my competence, or I find it unpleasant, or maybe just that I want to finish the book I was reading. The worker takes the job because he prefers having the money to not having it. If some ideologue finds the situation upsetting that is his problem not mine.

+1,,, and I learned a new word!!

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

flippercarson · 28-07-2016, 09:55

This is one of the most *holy-er than thou, self aggrandizing, paint everything with the same brush, giant steaming pile of crap* posts I have ever read on this forum.

You've got to be seriously ignorant or socially dysfunctional to pen something this absurd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

It is good to visit the carribean to put things in perspective. This allows me to appreciate the other side more. What I can't understand is why there are so many people sailing here and so few over there.

What I can say is the carribean is full of boats. This definitely spoils it. For example, the price of food is more or less 4x higher for everything and the variety in the market much lower.

The biggest factor for me is the local people. In the carribean I don't like most of the people I met, but in indonesia I really did.

The funny thing is, people with very huge boats like lagoon (or anything above 40ft) often remark the opposite perspective. In indonesia or similar places they will get hustled a lot.

In the carribean I think these same people like it maybe because they enjoy enslaving the locals with their money by paying them $5 to do things for them like bring them water or take their trash. This is similar to slavery by reinforcing that they are not on an equal level.

This is to such an extent that some local people "boat boys" survive off this, and make it their "occupation" They now expect all foreigners to have money to pay them for services. Other locals often become hostile if you decide to walk down the beach with empty pockets.

In indonesia and vanuatu, the local people understand and respect me for being engine free. Many people there told me it was a good thing and they were happy to see this. In the carribean, the local people tell me that I am wrong for not having this evil and should install a "6hp outboard". This is not one person on one island, but 4 different people on 3 different islands. For this reason I was given only 7 days visa in st vincent by the immigration in chateubellair and denied extension in bequia. I was forced to miss sailing the grenadines.

I have had more bad experiences in the carribean in 2 months than everywhere else (except new zealand which has many horrible people as well) after traveling nearly 7 years.

In vanuatu the locals on various islands often explained that they don't like the style of excessive boats. For this reason they invite me to custom dance for free, and give me free fruits, and tour the island hunting trips etc. This seems to annoy some people on larger boats when I told them because they were forced to pay. This is a good thing. I gave some locals in vanuatu my bicycle, a solar panel and battery, teach their kids how to use a soldering iron and how to wire it to play music etc... They take me to their garden and dig up 2 months of food so I sail to philippines. In phillipines, I go on local boats fishing, and they insist I keep what I catch, and they are only glad to have me along to make their life more interesting. In indonesia I can build a tree swing in the school with rope from brunei, all the kids are playing and they run around and collect mushrooms for me. I fixed some kids bicycle etc and they are happy to share what rice they grow and show me around the island. I have many more examples.

In the carribean these things just aren't possible because the people are corrupted. In fact, they drive motor boats and cars here in a wasteful and dangerous way. You cannot offer them anything besides money this is all they care about, and anything else is "an insult" and "disrespect"

Unfortunately these same locals do not like me much because I am not a means for them to profit off of. I cannot make any friends with locals here despite my best efforts, I must keep to myself. I think these are possibly the most ignorant people in the world. I could go on for several pages supporting this conclusion.

On the bright side, there is fast wifi which is free, where in philippines I had to pay $1 for 24 hours, or 5 cents for 15 minutes of internet at the same speed. It is also easy to meet more people on other boats because there are so many of them.

Now I am dreaming about the other side.

Myknjul · 28-07-2016, 10:02

Ridiculous thesis. Because we have garbage men in the states who make a darned good living, we are enslaving them? Nuts. Go find a hammock under a palm tree and quit pondering such class warfare insanity.