Caribbean - Pirated Waters ?

[pullord]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Yes, definitions are the key to having a intelligent discussion. If we are using two different definitions of a word it is difficult to understand each other.
- - However, to each their own, IMHO "Piracy" to me is any criminal offense - theft, assault, murder, etc., that occurs on the water to a vessel. This is a classification that excludes the same things happening to a vessel that is in a marina or attached to a seawall, pier, etc. In those cases the terms, theft, assault, etc. are relevant.
- - So in essence, "Piracy" is just a catch-all term or subject heading for any criminal directed or occurring to a vessel not docked. The databases I have seen generally avoid the term and just use the actual type of assault/theft/whatever to describe the incident.
- - I would, however, take humble exception with the use of the term "simple theft" - IMHO any invasion of my home/property by a thief is a major occurrence and there is nothing "simple" about it. I would posit that the phrase is similar in usage to the phrase "simple rape." To the victim the use of "simple" is denigrating.

-lawyers and cops allover the planet play around with these definitions and plea bargain theft robbery charges down to a 2-3 sentence in the crowbar hotel or probation{freedom with conditions}. over the years i have had some shady tenants living in the same bldg.as cops and lawyers and nurses and heard first-hand from {he said} a reformed thief that the scariest thing to him was to enter a bldg. with intent to steal and be surprised by occupants/employees still in the bldg,,he would flee{not even think of killing witnesses and carrying on}. his reasoning was simplely that a B&E charge is minor compared to a home invasion charge that the prosecutor could lay if he remained and sometimes would lay anyways,the difference in time is like comparing 3months to 6 years in prison,,years ago a japanese student was shot dead in the front yard of a texas home apparently drunk?,confused and looking for diections and the homeowner was not even charged as "trespassing after dark is a criminal offence",go figure,im sure "google still has a record of that",my point regarding simple descriptions of violent acts does not take away from the fear of the victim and the same as a dog will bite when scared a victim of crime will kill when frightened and sometimes that is a righteous move{it is called self-defense not murder} irregardless of foolish statements made to authorities afterwards or an overzealous prosecutor wanting a promotion to judge,years ago in St. Johns{antigua} a 65ft hinkley sailboat{very shiny} at anchor in harbour was boarded at night resulting in the strangulation/stabbing/rape? of the captain/girlfriend and two employees of the company that owned the yacht{ComputcentreU.K} IF i recall correctly the discovery of stolen cameras/travellers cheques led to the arrest of some local men,,this sad/brutal crime i read of was perhaps 3 column inches of a national newspaper and i never did hear anything ore on TV or in the news if the criminals were exeuted as some islands still have the death penalty for such crimes,,perhaps they were just sleeping with the companionway open,,i am sure there are websites that list some of these occurances of the past{that occurred in the 90"s},to just ignore these events or dwell on them is depressing but not as sad to me as the totally paranoid boater afraid to even pack a flare pistol because of some crap he googled on the internet,,perhaps the guy that did get hassled in some 3rd world nation{where ive never had problems} had an interpol record for money laundering/drug smuggling or was on the new 'homeland security watchlist" that can get a person blacklisted based on nationality?/wearing turban with/without ceremonial dagger or who knows,,point is USA dont run whole planet yet so who cares about 6wk ATF form just throw it overboard if your paranoid and replace it later at a yard sale/want adds or miami pawnshop with no ATF form required and i have never heard of any boat being searched leaving USA,except of course that container ship in lethal weapon part 2 where the guy with 'diplomatic immunity" gets smoked after his container load of cash gets scatterred. the truth is stranger than fiction as an educated women told me "law and order" episodes are based on real stories even the one where the victims are kids and the pedophiles are priests willing to let some retard choirboy take the rap for the priests crimes,anyhow i got more JD{jack d} to drink and an unseen movie coming on so see ya out there maybe and dont be afraid to use the portable motion sensors they sell at sears,at least you will have time to turn on the floodlights in the rigging turn up the cackle on the radio,make loud cocking sounds with a pair of vise grips{if you got no weapon} and get prepared to use bearspray/hairspray/teargas/molotov cocktails or some other useless device,,i will just spray 9mm in the dark with no decklights on if anchored in remote spot are perhaps do citizens arrest if in crowded area and help law enforcement put another animal in a cage after accidentally? dropping handcuffed intruders in ocean, oops,accidents happen and i dont care if bobs yr uncle or the chief is on the pad cause i will never set foot in countries that bad,,one site i do bother to study is the CIA website and its travel advisories,,websites advertising robbery here,dink theft there just give people excuses not to go anywhere,,just dont bring hairspray to a gunfight as i am sure any companions on board wont appreciate that stunt,,people say 3rd world prisons are bad but i met a few who never when in an a''hole and came out a manhole ,,cheers and be prepared for whatever / whenever out there as 911 ends at the outer marker.

[MarkJ]

I might not be able to spell. But at least I can punctuate and make something readable.

[knottygurl]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I might not be able to spell. But at least I can punctuate and make something readable.

1 flick with mouse wheel and I agree 100%.
that mess is just way too much strain on the brain

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I might not be able to spell. But at least I can punctuate and make something readable.

Barely! ;-)

[pullord]

Originally Posted by knottygurl

1 flick with mouse wheel and I agree 100%.
that mess is just way too much strain on the brain

-hey just read it like you can hokd your breath for five minutes.Must use more periods and lass commas.Messed up with that ATF form as it doeant apply to USCG registered vessels returning to USA,hope no other USA boays thought there new forms.We use delaware and everthing same as ten years ago last i bothered to check until recent. Just declare firearms as usual and as lomg as declarer not prohibited from possessiom on us soil no problem in the good ole USA where the 4th amemdment guarantees the right to bear arms and firearms are as easy{or easier} to get than a drivers licenxe.And if your a foreigner try the want-adds or yard sales ffor some great deals on used and often noy abused guns. Aint that great that some nobody can acquire a gun to protect his loved ones and self wirhout any permit regd. Now how can anyone stop that when they cant even stop the fisherman in PEI from fishing out the bkuefin tuna like they allready did to the cod.Ah well "no 911 past the outer marker" applies to alot more activities than smuggling haitians and stealing dingies .Must get back to this Ray charles story on sat-tv{must get lighted keyboard on next computer or install spellcheck},nust pour more JD..cjeers

[Hillbillylad]

Originally Posted by pullord

-hey just read it like you can hokd your breath for five minutes.Must use more periods and lass commas.Messed up with that ATF form as it doeant apply to USCG registered vessels returning to USA,hope no other USA boays thought there new forms.We use delaware and everthing same as ten years ago last i bothered to check until recent. Just declare firearms as usual and as lomg as declarer not prohibited from possessiom on us soil no problem in the good ole USA where the 4th amemdment guarantees the right to bear arms and firearms are as easy{or easier} to get than a drivers licenxe.And if your a foreigner try the want-adds or yard sales ffor some great deals on used and often noy abused guns. Aint that great that some nobody can acquire a gun to protect his loved ones and self wirhout any permit regd. Now how can anyone stop that when they cant even stop the fisherman in PEI from fishing out the bkuefin tuna like they allready did to the cod.Ah well "no 911 past the outer marker" applies to alot more activities than smuggling haitians and stealing dingies .Must get back to this Ray charles story on sat-tv{must get lighted keyboard on next computer or install spellcheck},nust pour more JD..cjeers

" Pirate" to the rest of the world..... " Thieving ,murdering scumbag, deserves a damn good kicking.

"Pirate" to American redneck evangelist........ Anyone else with a boat that doesn't speak English......nah thats not fair, I've yet to meet an American that speaks English.
Get over yourself dude. Your just a third world country with money is all. Why do you think so many cruisers are American? You convinced em to leave.

[pullord]

-politics is off limits on this forum but it is not surprising to me that persons who are not usa born expect to be rescued by navy seals off somolia coast or usa navy will save the area. W hy should usa tax dollars be used to go around the planet saving hell-hole areas and ghettos{run by thug warlords},I was not born USA but thanks to their great laws and freedoms i dont have to be a member of the politicbureau to possess a firearm or USCG register a boat USA. I read the CIA website and find it s info consice and accurate relating to some of the true 3rd world nations i have been to in the past but situations can change rapidly as what happened in libya proves. The high piracy areas of the planet such as somalian coast have been "travel advisory" areas on the CIA website for many years allready. IT is easy to insult USA but if your in difficulty in the philipinnes and other USA protected area it will be the USA you will be radioing for assistance?/tow when your on a lee shore in a typhoon or your ship got dis-masted or whatever/whenever and your looking for help from another ship.It will also be the USCG considerable influence that will reroute a commercial vessel {that would otherwise motor by} to change its course and come to your assistance. If this is not the truth than i will drink another bottle of spirits tonight as either way i win the wager. Not all rednecks are usa ultra right-wing conservatives willing to swear all statements on a stack of bibles especially when the persons expecting you to swear are infidels and heathens. Why cast my pearls to the swine.Cheers and have a righteous day.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by pullord

-politics is off limits on this forum but it is not surprising to me that persons who are not usa born expect to be rescued by navy seals off somolia coast or usa navy will save the area. W hy should usa tax dollars be used to go around the planet saving hell-hole areas and ghettos{run by thug warlords},I was not born USA but thanks to their great laws and freedoms i dont have to be a member of the politicbureau to possess a firearm or USCG register a boat USA. I read the CIA website and find it s info consice and accurate relating to some of the true 3rd world nations i have been to in the past but situations can change rapidly as what happened in libya proves. The high piracy areas of the planet such as somalian coast have been "travel advisory" areas on the CIA website for many years allready. IT is easy to insult USA but if your in difficulty in the philipinnes and other USA protected area it will be the USA you will be radioing for assistance?/tow when your on a lee shore in a typhoon or your ship got dis-masted or whatever/whenever and your looking for help from another ship.It will also be the USCG considerable influence that will reroute a commercial vessel {that would otherwise motor by} to change its course and come to your assistance. If this is not the truth than i will drink another bottle of spirits tonight as either way i win the wager. Not all rednecks are usa ultra right-wing conservatives willing to swear all statements on a stack of bibles especially when the persons expecting you to swear are infidels and heathens. Why cast my pearls to the swine.Cheers and have a righteous day.

ROFL.... stick to the Rambo movies...
and have another drink... real life does not match your 'Hollywood' view of the world...
ahh... the joys of booze..
Can make anything look beautiful... till you roll over and take a look in the morning...

[pullord]

Originally Posted by boatman61

ROFL.... stick to the Rambo movies...
and have another drink... real life does not match your 'Hollywood' view of the world...
ahh... the joys of booze..
Can make anything look beautiful... till you roll over and take a look in the morning...

-that should be title of those BS rambo movies and Steven Seagull flicks.Instead of HARD TO kill the title should be "Hard to Believe" and Out for Justice should be "Out of Luck".Perhaps later i will see if Netfliks has Slumdog Millionares or "The Departed" or classics based on true stories such as 'Serpico" or 'White Squall".Sure i woke up beside some monsters and i thank my lucky stars i dont have HIVor HEP-C from my stupid days in Jamaica where the HIV rate is almost as high as africa. That should be a more sobering statistic to some young boaties than the petty jealousy of the undeclared firearms aboard the yacht anchored next door. "Tell a girl telagraph" was a slogan from highschool but as i got wiser and "learned from the other guys mistakes" the slogan 'TELL a man better have back-up plan".Telling a secret is like picking up a hitchhiker as "why take an unnecassary risk" when the conspiracy of one is the safest secret of all.As i allready know i am the only one on board with enough stones to use it when push comes to shove and until then if i met you in public i would "{not even go there}" or discuss firearms or admit possession,I only put the easy availabiity of firearms at yard-sales .want-adds and even the well organized Thunderbird flea market of N.miami without permits required so those foreigners who desire can acquire a firearm if needed.Just locking the companioway and turning the a/c on at night does not always keep the 'Bad boys" from coming in. Especially if they know from their bud at the casino you just cashed out 25k in chips and got the cash on board somewhere and their other bud" {on the pad} says you declared no firearms so what u do now? worry about some parking ticket for a shell or two or quietly hum "a momentary lapse of reason" by pink floyd as you "wake the neighbours".later you can play "have a nice day" by Bon Jovi ,cheers and happy boat hunting in St. Lucia with 25k,South Florida has more bargains with alot more than just house/boat mortgages underwater and selling at pre2008 market values.Yes i read alot of threads as i like to learn from the other guys mistakes as God only knows how many i have made.Cheers and bottoms down topsails up,autopilot on drinks cold when weather hot and vice versa when weather cold.Buy Buy

[WarmWaters]

Originally Posted by shipofools

There is no legitimate piracy in the Fl Keys. There is crime, but that is everywhere. The police presence on the water is extreme.

Thread closed.

I didn't know that it was up to you when other people's discussions end

[pullord]

Originally Posted by WarmWaters

I didn't know that it was up to you when other people's discussions end

-As for textbook definition of piracy i am not sure but having insurance is definitely a good idea in south florida as my relative had a 50 ft sailboat stolen right out of a marina in florida so not just cigarrette boats are stolen.Nowadays the smugglers use planes antways and some kind of submarines{if we are to believe TV}.as for no piracy i would not agree based on my personal definition and experiance. No somalia-type piracy but when only body parts wash up in Biscayne Bay.Miami just who is to say what happened out there on the gulf stream. The 5oft sailkboat was never recovered and was not insured either and that is a true story as the neighbors even witnessed the theft but believed the crew were the new owners{the boat was listed for sale}.I however definitely feel a 911 call in florida has a quick response time so shooting some drunk kid from japan wandering around the yard{as happened in texas} is unnnecessary and cruel even if it is legal because"trespassing at night is a criminal offence that can_____justify lethal force" or some such legal jargon that allowed the homeowner to do so.i am sure that was "a momentary lapse of reason" even if the shooter wont admit it or was the kid carrying a sub-sandwich wrapped in tinfoil. That scene in the movie 'Casino" is LOL but as for based on true events i dont no but seem to recall the narrator{devito}referred to the sandwich as a hero-sandwhich{how appropriate for a sandwhich mistaken for a weapon that resulted in a lethal shooting and subsequent acts of vengeance.When you laugh at scenes like that in a public theatre people turn around and look at you same as the "chainsaw scene" of "Scarface". Notice no brand name like"partner" or "BLack & Decker" written on that saw and who uses a gas saw in a hotel room when a quiet electric saw is available?, Of course there is alot of BS in movies but i remember being in miami in the 1990s and the cops were looking for some creep leaving suitcases full of body parts by the freeways{never heard if creep caught} so that area has its own hazards for the unwary,I once got pulled over after running red-lights going home in the dead of night in miami and told the copper "would u sit at an empty intersection waiting to get car-jacked" he said right answer or perhaps it was my girlfriends presence that saved me from a slew of tickets either way when in rome do as the romans do or at least try.Have fun out there.

[pullord]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Noonsite: Piracy Reports 2010

-recent google"st.johns,antigua sailboat murders" brought up article in "heraldscotland dated monday june 27,2011" re 1994 murders and subsequent death penalties. Also amnesty article listed names and ages of those convicted at www.amnesty.org/fr/library/asset iamr58/amr5800 .google search also brought up other sailboat murders in recent years at st.johns of australian captain.Original poster wanted info on this so simple searches done using google with"city,country,sailboat murders" will bring up hits allover carribean if you want to be informed or reminded of such sad,brutal events that occurred in desparate{or drug induced} persons quest for loot.Next for hellry i am going to google florida keys,florida sailboat murders" and see what google brings up as yahoo searches usually bring very little unless specific,So long and fairwinds to you solo survivors who got to be ready for whatever/whenever it happens as no-one else has got your back on the relentless ocean.Did anyone ever find the german who fell overboard while fixing his motor enroute to st.lucia? just curious is all as it was on cnn once i heard.Life jackets can save lives especially in cold water but 20/20 hindsight is easy to have and who wakes up in the morning and wants to wear a lifeline and lifevest allday. i would probably get so bored i would be shooting seagulls for excitement after a ran out of empty bottles to sink.Next i will google mexico.sailboat murders,,see what the search engine brings up,Take care out thar

[rgscpat]

What do most countries say about having armed bears on your boat?

(One of the Patrick O'Brian Aubrey-Maturin Napoleonic-era sailing stories did have an episode in which French privateers were foiled in attacking a circus ship, defended in part by a gorgeous Russian female sharpshooter plus a trained bear and lion.)

As far as I know, this post does not measurably add to thread drift on this topic.

[pullord]

Ive noticed that it is often a personal decision as to who or how many get the retina scans or finger-up-the-rectum treatment at customs. Usually depends on what traveller says and not what country your entering. Someone must have got the immigration folks upset at LAX that day to hassle 5star passengers that way.Cheers

[Deck Scrubber]

Where the hell do you buy Bear Spray? ....I want some.