Bahamas Meltdown

[Dulcesuenos]

Posts like this op are bad and no different than saying "9 killed in a waco the otherday, I guess Texas isnt safe anymore. Comparing it to a US city also doesn't seem realistic as the population density is way different

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[dohenyboy]

My Bahamian friend from Long Island told me about his car getting stolen last month and the police being no help.
In Nassau, most murders are between the drug gangs and are ordered from the prison. The crime bosses have cell phones somehow. There is opportunistic theft including assaults by motocyclists. The justice system is completely inefficient. The Deputy PM was robbed in a home invasion. It is definitely getting worse the past few years in Nassau.


Why can't things remain where i carelessly left them?

[cofc]

Just got back from 6 months in The Bahamas. We never felt the need to lock our boat or dinghy until we arrived back in the US. There's crime everywhere, don't be an ******* and you'll be fine.

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by zboss

You are uninformed. Despite what most folks believe, these countries have never been "crime free". In fact, rape in at epidemic proportions here in the Bahamas.

The primary driver of most crimes in the Caribbean can be traced directly to the lack of long term mental healthcare facilities in these countries and the money and planning needed to operate them.

I'm not speaking so much about the recent burglaries and murders in Nassau but for many other such as rape and assault where no financial motive was indicated you can trace the root cause to the lack of mental care.

In most of these cases, the defendant has some history of mental illness and the country has limited resources to deal with the long term housing and maintenance of these types of personalities. The general method of dealing with these individuals is to treat them in patient for a few days, pump them full of drugs, give a prescription and send them on their way in the care of their families. In many cases these "families" are 70 year old grandmothers dealing with a sociopathic 17 year old. You will be absolutely aghast to find out how many of these folks actually make it to court.

I point you to the following report which contains the quote "The Territory never had a mental hospital—the community care paradigm is the
dominant approach to treatment. There is no forensic facility. There is one inpatient facility providing treatment for persons suffering from alcohol and substance abuse."

http://www.who.int/mental_health/who...report_bvi.pdf

zboss -

The report you link to concerns the British Virgin Islands, not the Bahamas. I can only assume that the rest of your post does not refer to the Bahamas. Unless, of course, you have some statistics to offer that relate to the Bahamas.

In my experience, the vast majority of violent crime in the Bahamas is found on Grand Bahama and New Providence. You can always tell the newbies in Exuma, they lock their dinghy at the dinghy dock. That doesn't last long, then they relax.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by FSMike

zboss -

The report you link to concerns the British Virgin Islands, not the Bahamas. I can only assume that the rest of your post does not refer to the Bahamas. Unless, of course, you have some statistics to offer that relate to the Bahamas.

In my experience, the vast majority of violent crime in the Bahamas is found on Grand Bahama and New Providence. You can always tell the newbies in Exuma, they lock their dinghy at the dinghy dock. That doesn't last long, then they relax.

Yes, the BVI, however the root cause is similar throughout the region, its just happens to be the first of the reports I came across and am familiar with. The lack of mental healthcare and adequate prisons leading to short sentences, no or inadequate forensic offices, not to mention the old tried and true corruption are alive and well throughout the basin.

As my immediate family has owned property in the caribbean for 30 years, sailed/travelled the caribbean for more than that and has been a victim of violent crime in the caribbean for which we had a years-long struggle in several caribbean courts trying to convict the offender (and thus strong first-hand experience and opinions on the matter at hand) I'm quite familiar with the pattern of crimes in most areas we visit.

We happen to also be in the Abacos right now.

With that said, we feel safer here in the Bahamas than we feel down island.

My point is - I don't think crime is any worse than its ever been but the population is growing and the police facilities, the personnel, and technology have not grown to meet the demands of this growing population. As you know, right now the Bahamas and the caribbean are experiencing tightened fiscal pressures because of the Caribbean Financial Action Task Force and other pressures on banks to reveal offshore accounts. This has had a trickle down effect on the local economies by making it harder for average citizens to get bank loans, short term loans, credit, etc... while also having to deal with their growing populations. So of course, you have more folks out of work and thus more crime.

[sailorboy1]

I would guess that most of the violent crime in the Bahamas is like most of the violent crime in other locations. It is between low lifes fighting with each other. I don't really have a problem with that. If you avoid those areas you probably don't have much to worry about.

But if you are a drug user who also is a cruiser and get into an issue while buying drugs, is that a drug crime or a crime against a cruiser?

[ObsessionSTJ]

I honestly didn't feel comfortable in Nassau at all either. The Exumas and specifically Georgetown were great though. We are permanently in the St. John, USVI area at this time. I agree with jstarebel that the US and British Virgin Islands are a safe place to cruise. www.mountainsandseashore.blogspot.com

I understand your dismay at the sad changes though.

Happy and safe sailing,
Camile
s/v Obsession

[RTB]

Anyone think that 50,000 illegal Haitians in the Bahamas could be a big part of the problem? Probably a bigger factor than mental illness, but maybe I'm wrong.


There are pages of this stuff-

Haitians: Up to 50,000 living in Bahamas without documents | The Tribune

Bahamas pursuing xenophobic policies against Haitians, expert says | Fox News Latino

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/wo...ules.html?_r=0

http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/20...-suis-haitian/

It seems law enforcement would have a difficult time dealing with crimes, if illegals are involved.

Ralph

[Group9]

Originally Posted by RTB

Anyone think that 50,000 illegal Haitians in the Bahamas could be a big part of the problem? Probably a bigger factor than mental illness, but maybe I'm wrong.


There are pages of this stuff-

Haitians: Up to 50,000 living in Bahamas without documents | The Tribune

Bahamas pursuing xenophobic policies against Haitians, expert says | Fox News Latino

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/wo...ules.html?_r=0

The Boat People’s Plight and Deadly Perseverance (Je suis Haitian!) : Kaieteur News

It seems law enforcement would have a difficult time dealing with crimes, if illegals are involved.

Ralph

No doubt.

But, I think a lot of this new Bahamian crime wave is just more up front and accurate reporting than happened before. I worked in the Bahamas in 2004 as a law enforcement liaison with the Bahamian Police. And, I knew of lots of crimes back then that didn't make the papers.
There was plenty of crime back then, but, like now, it was almost all in Nassau. Nassau was a place I treaded carefully in back then, and it is a place I would tread carefully in today.
But, I'm heading back to the Bahamas just as soon as I can. If I spend more than one night in Nassau, it will be because of poor planning on my part.

[Amapola]

Outside of the large cities, the Bahamas are as beautiful as ever.

[arsenelupiga]

haver not been there, so it is more like comment from outside.

From history bahamas are populated by ex-slave population, mainly sourced from india & africa.

these people have been displaced and left their culture behind.

so, not going to get any better, ever.

however, happy to be proven wrong. Will then add place to my list to visit.

[brownoarsman]

Can you actually get in trouble buying drugs in the Caribbean? I'm not into them but every place I went on grand bahama, everyone kept trying to sell me every kind of illegal drug under the sun. At the Taino beach fish fry, they did so while right next to the police!
Violent crime and theft is more what I'd be afraid of.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[rognvald]

"As you know, right now the Bahamas and the caribbean are experiencing tightened fiscal pressures because of the Caribbean Financial Action Task Force and other pressures on banks to reveal offshore accounts. This has had a trickle down effect on the local economies by making it harder for average citizens to get bank loans, short term loans, credit, etc... while also having to deal with their growing populations. So of course, you have more folks out of work and thus more crime." Zboss

This is quite true Z, and there is also the pressure of a world recession which has impacted countries large and small. As local economies suffer and tourism declines, the propensity for crime rises in certain cultures and economic groups ,but not in all groups. For example, here in Chicago-- the South and West sides have the worst unemployment and the worst crime. The people are largely uneducated, have lived for generations on welfare, have never worked and there is no hope for things to change. To the North and West of the city lies suburbia that has also been impacted by the recession in home foreclosures, loss of well paying jobs and the death of businesses large and small. However, these are safe areas of civil, well educated people where crime is virtually non-existent and the state of the economy has no bearing on the safety of the population. So, how does this relate to the Bahamas? The Bahamas have no real industry/manufacturing other than tourism and real estate(controlled by a small percentage of the population) and perhaps the negligible remains of a strong and vibrant drug trade that we saw in full bloom in the 60's, 70's and 80's. The population, by US/European standards, is poorly educated, lacks well paying jobs and lives largely at, or below, the sustenance level. Their government lacks consistent social welfare programs to help those who are needy and their police enforcement capabilities are unable to deal effectively with the rising crime--whether induced by increased population or a static increase in real crime. So, the net effect to the Bahamas and elsewhere in the Caribbean is similar to the South and West sides of Chicago: poverty, poor education, unemployment and lack of good paying jobs is the breeding ground for crime and loss of civility. As conditions continue to decline, it will only get worse. Is there a meltdown in the Bahamas . . . I believe yes and its breeding ground will continue to grow as we have seen in major cities worldwide.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by rognvald

So, the net effect to the Bahamas and elsewhere in the Caribbean is similar to the South and West sides of Chicago: poverty, poor education, unemployment and lack of good paying jobs is the breeding ground for crime and loss of civility. .

So I guess the problem with ISIS is a lack of Jobs and opportunity? I see a job at the US State Department in your future.

So if poverty and the evil of Income Inequality is the father of violence, rape and murder, why is it that so many villages of dirt poor people have lower crime rates than some wealthy “1st world” Cities? No, evil and bad people are the cause of crime and you find those in poor, middle class and rich communities in equal proportions around the world. We are not talking here about starving people stealing a loaf of bread to feed his children. We are talking rapes, murders, violent crimes.

We can't blame the evil/bad apples not just in the culture of the Islands but on the streets of Chicago, Wall street or Pennsylvania Ave. The smart educated position is to explain why the downtrodden have to resort to a life of crime. Na...it's not their fault or lack of morals...who's morals...who are you to judge right from wrong these days? You can't expect a poor man to have the same view of robbery/rape as a rich man....you bigot, you racist...you white privileged ass you...see where this not wanting to speak the truth to evil has gotten us. We can't even call a Thug a Thug anymore or you are a racist or risk offending the Thug!

There isn't a meltdown in the Bahamas, anymore than there is a meltdown in Ferguson, Baltimore, Chicago, and you pick the US or world big city where daddy Government is raising generations of people who's very livelihoods and existence is from a government handout rather from themselves. You can't judge and call out this failure. All you are allowed to do is call the masters that dole out the free stuff the smarter, more caring, more loving amongst us. To call them the slave masters they really are these days is to not be sensitive, politically correct or makes you a hater, bla bla bla burp. The emperor has no clothes folks and to even say it in this culture of decay makes you the bad guy. Just because the truth makes you uncomfortable to deal with, doesn't mean it isn't the truth.

Well that's enough for today...I better put on my suit of armor for the arrows coming my way, but I'm just sick and tired of seeing Evil explained and excused away. In 1994 100 Million dollars was given in a grant to the City of Baltimore to fix things...of course you know it didn't fix anything, but it made those handing out other people's money feel better about themselves and smile for the camera and news articles about how compassionate they were and how enlightened, and how loving and caring. But meanwhile back in realityville...that 100 million didn't change a thing in the lives of the people it was intended to help. The next 100 million won't just as the Trillions spent on the fake "War on Poverty" hasn't decreased poverty.

Go ahead...slam away...I can take it...

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by rognvald

The Bahamas have no real industry/manufacturing other than tourism and real estate...

Actually, they have a thriving banking and financial services industry.