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Old 15-06-2015, 07:49   #31
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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Does anyone know who I would report bad seamanship from a cruise ship to?
Sailing this week off the coast of Culebra I was on a collision course with the ship Carnival Valor. When I hailed him on the radio his response was he had to follow the contour to avoid shallow water. The depths were 80-100 ft.! He was full of it and just plain lazy. But that is awful seamanship. Where should I report this to, does anyone know? Thanks
I am hoping that post is a joke, but in the event it is not I might suggest you sign up for the free online boating safety class offered by Boat U.S.
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Old 15-06-2015, 08:00   #32
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Re: Bad Seamanship

You won't gain any bragging rights at the Tiki bar when you tell the story of how you and your right of way got your vessel got crushed by a cruise ship. Though you might gain a lot of laughter aimed your way.


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Old 15-06-2015, 08:03   #33
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Re: Bad Seamanship

this has been more entertaining than waiting for a furycame to strike ye dead...
IFF you read your rules of the watery road, you will not only learn that you have to get the hellout of the big guys way, but you MUST, according to patriot act law give 500 ft lee way to that big boy.
good luck with your complaimt.
mebbe next time you merely relocate your bow and the direction of your pleasure craft so the working boys can be able to continue working.
you DO realize, i hope, that the captain of the big boy actually went to school for 4 years for his license, and might know what he is doing, as he , before achieving his status, experienced many positions aboard the ships he crewed.
perhaps the CAPTAIN might know some more than you about the rules of the road.
i bet a nickle the capt and crew of big guy were laughing their sides split on that call you made.
thankyou for the entertainment.
go to power squadron safety classes. you NEED them.
do it before you are DEAD wrong.....it is better to give way than to be DEAD wrong.
never hit anything bigger or harder than you
never forget the rule of gross tonnage.
please advise us here as to what the uscg told you when you complained about the captains errors.
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Old 15-06-2015, 08:04   #34
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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-----
Sailing this week off the coast of Culebra I was on a collision course with the ship Carnival Valor. When I hailed him on the radio his response was he had to follow the contour to avoid shallow water. The depths were 80-100 ft.' -----
While I personally would have avoided the ship in some reasonable manner, I am curious about some conclusions that have been drawn on this thread.

How do we know that the ship was constrained by draft? He's off Culebra in 80-100' of water. "Off Culebra" takes in a lot of area. On one side he might have progressively shallower water, but on the other side it might have gotten much deeper. "Following the depth contour" indicates to me that shallow to one side and deep to the other side might have well been the case.

Restricted in ability to maneuver? Again, we don't know. If one side of the ships course was deeper a simple course adjustment might have been enough to avoid the small boat.

One poster commented on the desirability of keeping a vessel with a 27' draft exactly on course in 80'-100' of water. I can't argue the wisdom of that policy other than to put it in perspective: How paranoid are you going to get in your 5' draft sailboat when you're in 15-20' depth?

As I said I would have avoided the ship to start with. I was just wondering how everybody seems to know exactly what the situation was. It may be that some locals know exactly where the ship was, or at least usually is, but I missed that if somebody said it.
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Old 15-06-2015, 08:04   #35
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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Originally Posted by sailrmn View Post
Does anyone know who I would report bad seamanship from a cruise ship to?
Sailing this week off the coast of Culebra I was on a collision course with the ship Carnival Valor. When I hailed him on the radio his response was he had to follow the contour to avoid shallow water. The depths were 80-100 ft.! He was full of it and just plain lazy. But that is awful seamanship. Where should I report this to, does anyone know? Thanks
Are you sure he had extra manoeuvering room?

You might think he's rude or a bully but he might think you're a safety hazard.

Cruise ship captains aren't in the habit of experimenting with shortcuts. With one exception and we know how that ended.

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Old 15-06-2015, 08:06   #36
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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As I look back and remember some of Dads ol truisms. I recall the one where someone yelled at him and said "I have the right-of-way"
He yelled back "That'll look good on your tombstone"
+1. I'll have to remember that one.

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Old 15-06-2015, 09:04   #37
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Re: Bad Seamanship

I just wonder what the tone of conversation was over the radio. On the fee occasions that I have called the big ship asking what they would like me to do, their reply has been to hold course.
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Old 15-06-2015, 09:48   #38
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Re: Bad Seamanship

Well, A quick look at the charts shows me that a cruise ship operating in 80-100' off Isla De Culebra is very likely CBD.

North of the island in 80' puts you within 1/3 mile of a 30 depth contour in a region of < 60' rock. To the east the shoaling is abrupt south of Isla Culebrita.

SE is the Bajos Grampus and I would be on edge to take my 6' draft boat there.

SW is a broad plain at 80' but You would need to set up for the La Pasa De Los Cayos Lobos so altering course could be a problem (not saying it could not be done....) I would not even try Pasaje De Hermanos.

Which leaves Pasaje Lavador to the NW.

Yes, CBD appears to be plausible.
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Old 15-06-2015, 09:58   #39
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Re: Bad Seamanship

I guaranty you that if I am operating a vessel with a 27' draft and only 100' of water, you can kiss my butt, I am not going to deviate from my known course. With due respect to zeehag some of us didn't spend 4 years in college, some of us came up through the hawse pipe and have many years on many different types of vessels and did spend a bunch of time going to classes to further our professional credentials.
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Old 15-06-2015, 10:11   #40
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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Well, A quick look at the charts shows me that a cruise ship operating in 80-100' off Isla De Culebra is very likely CBD.

North of the island in 80' puts you within 1/3 mile of a 30 depth contour in a region of < 60' rock. To the east the shoaling is abrupt south of Isla Culebrita.

SE is the Bajos Grampus and I would be on edge to take my 6' draft boat there.

SW is a broad plain at 80' but You would need to set up for the La Pasa De Los Cayos Lobos so altering course could be a problem (not saying it could not be done....) I would not even try Pasaje De Hermanos.

Which leaves Pasaje Lavador to the NW.

Yes, CBD appears to be plausible.
The OP also appears to be unfamiliar with the sort of 'Bottom Effect' that vessels of such size and displacement can be subject to in proximity to shoaling/shelving bottom contours...

His whining reminds me of 'demands' I've overheard from cruisers to tugs plying tight spots on the ICW to give them more room...

:-)
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Old 15-06-2015, 10:56   #41
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Re: Bad Seamanship

I stand corrected! Thanks for the responses.
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Old 15-06-2015, 11:01   #42
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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I stand corrected! Thanks for the responses.

you get a lot of credit from me for your reply.

best Regards!
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Old 15-06-2015, 11:23   #43
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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I stand corrected! Thanks for the responses.
Nice work, glad to hear we could help.

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Old 15-06-2015, 12:56   #44
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Re: Bad Seamanship

First sign of intelligence is knowing when to admit you're wrong. Well played, good sir.
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Old 15-06-2015, 13:21   #45
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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you get a lot of credit from me for your reply.

best Regards!
Absolutely!

My apologies to the OP for referring to him as a "whiner", but I'm just a gasbag, after all...

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