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Old 14-06-2015, 18:55   #16
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Re: Bad Seamanship

According to ColRegs (Navigation Rules Online)
Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.

(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.

Rules 9B, and 10J, are also worth a read.
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Old 14-06-2015, 19:15   #17
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
This has to be a windup !

Worked, didn't it! LOL!
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Old 14-06-2015, 19:38   #18
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Re: Bad Seamanship

Maybe it's just me, but, that big slow to manuver vessel had the right of way, just like a tanker or any other huge slow to manuver vessel does, being unrealistic is bad practice.
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Old 14-06-2015, 19:54   #19
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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Run him over next time!
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Old 14-06-2015, 19:58   #20
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Re: Bad Seamanship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lochner View Post
According to ColRegs (Navigation Rules Online)
Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.

(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of:

(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.

Rules 9B, and 10J, are also worth a read.

I gonna hang that on my cabin and recite (on chanel 16) at the next tanker who tried to cut my tack on the bay... I'm sure they're gonna be impressed and change course immediately.... :bigg rin:
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Old 14-06-2015, 20:25   #21
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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Originally Posted by garrobito View Post
I gonna hang that on my cabin and recite (on chanel 16) at the next tanker who tried to cut my tack on the bay... I'm sure they're gonna be impressed and change course immediately.... :bigg rin:
You might not have read it all the way through:

A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of a vessel restricted in her ability to manuever.
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Old 14-06-2015, 20:33   #22
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Re: Bad Seamanship

This is a funny thread. So, you were out cruising, and you called a 1000' ship and demanded right of way, to which the skipper responded he didn't have sufficient water to turn to starboard. And you think you're in the right!

Forget the ColRegs, they arent relevant here, this is where common sense dictates that you give the big guy a little more room. I won't get into turning circles and stopping distances here, because it would be a waste of typing. If you are in anything approaching restricted waters (for him- not you), just get out of his way.

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Old 14-06-2015, 20:53   #23
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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Originally Posted by sailrmn View Post
Does anyone know who I would report bad seamanship from a cruise ship to?
Sailing this week off the coast of Culebra I was on a collision course with the ship Carnival Valor. When I hailed him on the radio his response was he had to follow the contour to avoid shallow water. The depths were 80-100 ft.! He was full of it and just plain lazy. But that is awful seamanship. Where should I report this to, does anyone know? Thanks

Contact Carnival Cruises.

The more we keep on top of these sorts of things the more irrelevant the pathetic responses of "he's bigger than you so go run away little boy".
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Old 14-06-2015, 20:54   #24
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Re: Bad Seamanship

All this nonsense with sea lawyers lately. Rule 2(a) refers to the ordinary practice of seamen.

The ordinary practice of seamen would not be to push right of way in a 37' boat against a 1000' cruise ship in confined waters.

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Old 14-06-2015, 21:01   #25
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Re: Bad Seamanship

Interesting post. er uh, complaint, or was it a rant? After all the similar responses above there is still no further comment by the OP. I wonder why? Let's unpack it:

Q-1 Does anyone know who I would report bad seamanship from a cruise ship to?

A Don't end sentences in prepositions. Aside from that, any sailor should figure that out for himself or herself and the answer aint the IRS, the dog pound or the Ministry of Health. One might also try with Carnival Cruise Lines? But aside from that, who committed the supposed "bad seamanship" here? Was it the ship's captain or the OP?

Q-2 Sailing this week off the coast of Culebra I was on a collision course with the ship Carnival Valor. When I hailed him on the radio his response was he had to follow the contour to avoid shallow water.

A What kind of boat were you on? Presumably a much smaller and much slower boat-yes? That portion has already been answered above. I think the ship's officer was just being polite when he could have spoken to you much more directly--and forcefully.

Q-3 The depths were 80-100 ft.! He was full of it and just plain lazy. But that is awful seamanship.

A-3 Someone was full of it and just plain lazy to be sure. But was it the ship's captain with an unlimited mariner's license piloting a 1000 foot long ship at 20 knots with a few thousand passengers or the private owner of a small recreational boat? Yes it was awful seamanship but not on the part of the ship's officer...who by the way, would divert course to save you if your boat was sinking!

Q-4 Where should I report this to, does anyone know? Thanks

A-4 If I were you, I would have just kept it quiet. Who needs the embarrassment? But perhaps you can chalk this up to a learning experience.

And finally two items. One--this is not about right of way, it is about conduct of vessels within sight of each other and each has responsibilities with one being stand-by and the other being stand-on. And notwithstanding the many excellent responses before this one, the ship was not likely restricted in its ability to maneuver, at least from the legal definition unless it had mechanical problems or was towing or dredging or the like. Was it displaying a day shape as such? Was this post a joke or what? Keep clear of big ships!....
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Old 14-06-2015, 21:08   #26
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Re: Bad Seamanship

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Contact Carnival Cruises.

The more we keep on top of these sorts of things the more irrelevant the pathetic responses of "he's bigger than you so go run away little boy".
Call carnival if you like, but carnival is deeply affiliated with Costa Cruise Lines. If you read the news then you would know a Costa Ship elected recently to not follow the ships planned route, which was following contours, no doubt specified in their SMS. I'm pretty sure Carnival would rather irritate you than lose another ship and have the deaths of several dozen more people on their hands.

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Old 14-06-2015, 21:20   #27
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Re: Bad Seamanship

Who to report it to???

Might try the chaplain... if he's in a good mood he might punch your TS card (as folks in the military are wont to say).

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Old 14-06-2015, 21:32   #28
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Re: Bad Seamanship

Im surprised he even answered if it's real.

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Old 15-06-2015, 00:59   #29
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Re: Bad Seamanship

Sorry to sound sarcastic sailormn, but were you appointed seamanship monitor by someone?

The skipper told you he was constrained by depth. Whether or not he was correct; your question asked and answered; your action, either port to port or take his stern. What is the problemd?

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Old 15-06-2015, 06:28   #30
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Re: Bad Seamanship

If I were driving a vessel drawing 27 feet and was forced into a track where charts show only 80-100 feet depth I would keep her on the track of all previous such passages within a hairs breadth. And if a small sail boat hailed asking me to divert away from that known clear track I would not have so nicely responded as that ships officer. With such low margin for error I would say CV was indeed restricted by her draft.

I am curious if the OP would explain what the danger of collision was and what maneuver he wanted CV to make. She takes a few miles to make a significant course change when running at cruising speed. And how in the world did a small sailing vessel ever come to be on a collision course with a small island traveling at 20-30 knots? No radar, no AIS, no eyes? Maybe if we had more info we could advise the OP where to report the bad seamanship once we figure out which vessel had the bad seaman.
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