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Old 11-08-2008, 16:02   #16
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The windage on the Carver is conciderable. This is why it sails around on the hook. It should be part of the reason to upgrade the ground tackle. It the anchor does not have a pointy end (CQR, Delta) it will not get through the grass. (Bruce) Set it well. Better to have issues getting it up then not sticking.
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:22   #17
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The published tanks full displacement of the 42 Carver is 33,600 so you are probably looking at the documented displacement which has more to do with how much wine you can carry rather than actual weight. The Manson site says the range for the 45 lb Supreme is 40 to 45' so you are not "next size larger". Probably OK for a light weight coastal boat but displacement has a lot more to do with choosing an anchor than length. Even at 33,600 lb the 42 Carver is above the range for a 44 lb Spade and based on several published tests the 45 Manson has somewhat lower hold. As I said, I would not sell a 44 lb Spade to a boat over 33,000 lb.

In this case the wide swing probably did you in. When the boat reaches the limit of the swing it takes a lot of force to stop and accelerate it in the other direction.
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:09   #18
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CQR and Bruce

I have a question for all of you who have anchored in the Bahamas a bunch. I have a 35' hunter legend with a 35lb Bruce and a 35lb CQR (genuine) both have 15' of 5/16 chain and then rope (came with the boat and I am the windless so all chain is not an option at this time). I had assumed that I would use the Bruce as my primary this winter in the Bahamas but from this discussion it sounds that the CQR might be preferred for grass bottoms. I was wondering which of these two anchors are preferred for different bottom types. I have used both here in Florida with the Bruce being used more often and both work great. However I am not living on board and the anchoring is just for a day or two at a time. I would prefer not to have to learn the hard way as to which anchor drags in which bottom types if I don’t have to. So any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:36   #19
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Zola,

Before I got my Manson Supreme I spent many winters in the Bahamas with a Bruce and a CQR. I used the Bruce 90% of the time and only used the CQR in grassy bottoms. 15 feet of chain is much too little. I would get at least 50 feet. In the Bahamas most of the time you'll be anchoring in about 10 feet of water so when you're hauling up the hook you're only picking up the weight of ten feet or so of chain at a time. 50 feet is no more work than your 15 feet. I went for years with 50 ft of 3/8 chain. Now that I've got a windlass I have 200 feet of chain.
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:38   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
I'm having a little trouble with the 23 ton weight. The gross weight on your documentation papers has little to do with what your boat actually weighs.

Check with Carver on what your boat actually weighs.

good luck, dave
I agree with Dave. My document papers are incorrect on my tonnage also. It says 25 Net Tons for a GB42 twin diesel that seems to be actually around 38,000 pounds max fully loaded. I am sad to hear this about the Mason as I was considering it for a second anchor for me.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:29   #21
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I've had great luck in the Bahamas with my 44 lb Delta with 40 feet of 3/8" HT chain (fits my Lofruns windlass) and 150 ft of 3/4" New England three strand that I have rode markers in inorder to get an accurate take on the scope. The Delta is supposedly one size larger than recommended but perfect either way. I should be set for when it starts blowing. But then again my displacement is only 11,000 lbs unloaded. Not sure what your freeboard height is but the higher - the more windage which is more apt to sail on the anchor. And as previous posters mentioned, it's best to search out them sand patches verse grass and always wise back down on that anchor to give you the comfort of knowing you're set.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:33   #22
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"Tonnage", be it gross, net, registered or one of many others, has nothing to do with the weight of the boat. It is a measure of the volume of the hull. The term comes originally from TUN which is a 252 gallon wine cask which weighs 2,240 pounds (a long ton).
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:39   #23
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I agree with Dave. My document papers are incorrect on my tonnage also. It says 25 Net Tons for a GB42 twin diesel that seems to be actually around 38,000 pounds max fully loaded. I am sad to hear this about the Mason as I was considering it for a second anchor for me.
Not to hijack this thread but measurement tonnage is different from displacement. The tonnage in your documentation is based on volume with 100 cubic feet equaling one ton.
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Old 12-08-2008, 10:40   #24
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Quote:
My document papers are incorrect on my tonnage also. It says 25 Net Tons for a GB42 twin diesel that seems to be actually around 38,000 pounds max
Tonnage is not the same as weigth (Displacement)

Quote:
ton·nage Audio Help/ˈtʌnɪdʒ/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tuhn-ij]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.the capacity of a merchant vessel, expressed either in units of weight, as deadweight tons, or of volume, as gross tons. 2.ships collectively considered with reference to their carrying capacity or together with their cargoes. 3.a duty on ships or boats at so much per ton of cargo or freight, or according to the capacity in tons.
Also, tunnage.
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Old 13-08-2008, 21:49   #25
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Originally Posted by ZolaSail View Post
I have a question for all of you who have anchored in the Bahamas a bunch. I have a 35' hunter legend with a 35lb Bruce and a 35lb CQR (genuine) both have 15' of 5/16 chain and then rope So any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
my personal experience with the bruce precludes me from ever using it in the bahamas, even though at 66 lbs it's the largest anchor i have - most would consider it oversized. i switched it out to my old 45 lb cqr and never had a problem again. i'm talking a 37 foot 20000 lb sailboat with moderate windage. along the florida/georgia coast the bruce was flawless; in the bahamas it was downright frightening.

i expect to retire the old cqr and replace it with a 55 lb delta. i have all chain, 3/8" bbb, and feel much more secure than i would with an all rope or rope/chain setup.

as far as hauling by hand, the last month we were in the bahamas my manual windlass quit on me (broken gear) and i had to launch and retreive by hand. it's work but it's not impossible. remember that you will only be hauling up the weight of the chain from your hand to the sea bottom, plus the anchor. so if you're in 15 feet you can probably add 5 feet for the height of deck and figure on hauling up 20 feet of chain. with my 45lb anchor and 20 feet of 3/8" bbb at 30lb i guess i was hauling up 75lb the last 20 feet.

i wish i could somehow fit a chain stopper - would have made the hand hauling so much easier - but it's not possible with my bow arrangement.

it's interesting to me that the bahamian fishermen all use danforth anchors.....
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Old 14-08-2008, 06:30   #26
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My primary hook is a 45 CQR with 50 ft of 3/8 chain and 200 ft of 3/4 3 strand . I have not fitted a windlass yet (Next year?)but I can use my halyard winch if I need to on the rope. . I have a Danforth as a second hook 20 ft chain . Nice for bow and stern hooking in a current or narrow cut. It is also good for rowing out in a crowded anchorage when you need to pull away from a someone that ends up too close after a wind change or a noisy charter boat without moving the main hook. I had all chain on previous boats when venturing further but the Bahamas are as far as I care to go these days. Shallow water and good holding is not a bad thing.
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Old 14-08-2008, 06:52   #27
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i wish i could somehow fit a chain stopper - would have made the hand hauling so much easier - but it's not possible with my bow arrangement.

.
How about a chain hook with a short line made fast to one of your cleats?
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Old 14-08-2008, 08:14   #28
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Having dragged anchor at night to within twenty feet of a very hard cliff I have since been of the opinion that a boats weight should not be the determining criteria for the anchor weight. The determining criterion is that which the anchorman can reasonably handle. In my case 65lb; so I would use a 65lb anchor even if I only had a thirty foot boat, especially if it was a motor boat with high topsides and windage. I also never, never, never ever lie to one anchor at night! I set my bower with about three-quarter scope, then attach a second anchor, (in my case a 40lb fisherman,) on a ten foot line, then chuck it over the side and pay out the remainder, which can be either chain or chain/rope. The second anchor weighs the chain and presents a horizontal pull to the first, with an added advantage of lying to a short scope in the calm. If the wind shifts the boat initially swings to the second anchor, which may indeed drag, but eventually you lie to both in the new direction.
This may sound like a lot of work for a nights rest, but it never once dragged a 25 ton ketch in 40 knots of wind. Once, in Northern Majorca blowing a hooley Mistral, every boat in the harbor dragged except us and I finished up with three hanging off my stern, one behind the other. When it calmed down we noticed a sudden rush to the chandlers…….
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Old 14-08-2008, 08:16   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post

it's interesting to me that the bahamian fishermen all use danforth anchors.....
The oil platforms in the gulf use huge danforths. All my anchors are danforths and my boat came from Boston, Mass down the coast to Ft. Lauderdale and through the ditch to Marina Del Rey, CA all on it's own bottom and anchoring with the same anchor I have today. I have experienced many boats pulling anchors and banging into me and none of those boats had a danforth.

Just my casual observation.
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Old 14-08-2008, 10:16   #30
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23 tons? I know that an East Bay 43 w/ twin Yanmars + 80% fuel and water weighs less than 30,000 pounds (15 tons). I know this as I weighed one to see if I could put it on a lift when not in use.
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