Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-03-2014, 16:44   #1
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,135
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

I was afraid to miss anything off so threw it all together.

Ive been looking for a catamaran recently, and wanted to sail in the Med possbly based out of Mallorca or Sant Carles. However.. a spanner was thrown in the works and this wont be looked at again until next year due to other commitments.

In the meantime, When I looked up I didnt recognise the landscape anymore. Everything seems up in the air regarding this and that.

For those that are based in the Med, specifically Spain, what hoops do I have to go through or requirements to:
  • live aboard a British registered sub 40 foot Catamaran for about 2 years
  • Income not derived from Spain.
  • Keep the vessel British registered and UK VAT paid.
  • Sailing "licence" ?
and how much will all this cost........

__________________

__________________
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:10   #2
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,205
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
I was afraid to miss anything off so threw it all together.

Ive been looking for a catamaran recently, and wanted to sail in the Med possbly based out of Mallorca or Sant Carles. However.. a spanner was thrown in the works and this wont be looked at again until next year due to other commitments.

In the meantime, When I looked up I didnt recognise the landscape anymore. Everything seems up in the air regarding this and that.

For those that are based in the Med, specifically Spain, what hoops do I have to go through or requirements to:
  • live aboard a British registered sub 40 foot Catamaran for about 2 years
  • No Sweat
  • Income not derived from Spain.
  • No Sweat
  • Keep the vessel British registered and UK VAT paid.
  • No Sweat
  • Sailing "licence" ?
  • Day Skipper
and how much will all this cost........
Depends how many times you fail..

:whist ling:
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:24   #3
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,135
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Well mr Phil, the words in red removed most of my angst.
However
and...
a touch more info would be welcome perhaps gary@garyweaver.org might be off grid.
If you can spare the time and be bothered that is ...
Still smarting over the 'depends how many times you fail" bit... but it made me laugh.

git.
__________________
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:39   #4
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

If you live aboard your boat for two years in Spain, you can become subject to the matriculation tax on the boat. This is because once you exceed 180 days you technically a spainish tax resident.

Collection of the matric tax has been sporadic and haphazard, even the district of Valancia seems to be the most vigilant

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 17:44   #5
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,135
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
If you live aboard your boat for two years in Spain, you can become subject to the matriculation tax on the boat. This is because once you exceed 180 days you technically a spainish tax resident.

Collection of the matric tax has been sporadic and haphazard, even the district of Valancia seems to be the most vigilant

Dave
Hi Dave and thanks. This is what I have read. My knowledge of Spanish ways led me to ask simply because on the 'ground' it is different... and as some of the boys and girls live there and post here... I wanted to know the inside scoop.
g
__________________
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2014, 19:15   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

just spent a few weeks at sant carles de la rapita marina,can't say much about it apart from it having decent midwinter weather and an aire of a retirement village for english gentry..............where most of the elderly residents had died!

the high spot of the town was the LidL supermarket!

mallorca however is vibrant and thriving though you would need a second income in a high tax bracket to afford a marina berth in the south of the island
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 00:48   #7
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,135
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
just spent a few weeks at sant carles de la rapita marina,can't say much about it apart from it having decent midwinter weather and an aire of a retirement village for english gentry..............where most of the elderly residents had died!

the high spot of the town was the LidL supermarket!

mallorca however is vibrant and thriving though you would need a second income in a high tax bracket to afford a marina berth in the south of the island
Hi Atoll
Yup.. I used to own an apartment on the Island of Mallorca in the 80s and 90s and used to quiver when the price for a berth was about the same per year as what I paid outright!

I chose Sant Carles for the location... 120 some miles from Mallorca, a quiet town, AFFORDABLE rent, Brit owned with some benefits in other marinas... etc etc. pretty? no. Its within a long days sail to Mallorca.
I could NOT afford to stay in the Palma region with a boat.... so its a compromise. I work a lot in Mallorca and even asking around among friends etc, its not cheap anywhere on the Island for a mooring. I usually rent apartment for under 400Euros a month and a berth is easily double that or more in a good marina.

Lidl you say, vibrant centre of the Town. Sigh.. Sanatogen here we come.
__________________
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 01:10   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Port Welshpool Australia
Boat: sold swan new cat under construction / Canados 50s
Posts: 755
Images: 16
Send a message via Skype™ to beneteau-500
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

if you go to Home - Anen : Anen they are the spanish equivalent to the british marine federation and you you will find on their website various news articals and up and coming tax reforms etc etc
__________________
beneteau-500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 01:15   #9
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,135
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
if you go to Home - Anen : Anen they are the spanish equivalent to the british marine federation and you you will find on their website various news articals and up and coming tax reforms etc etc
Thank you.
__________________
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-03-2014, 19:52   #10
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
If you live aboard your boat for two years in Spain, you can become subject to the matriculation tax on the boat. This is because once you exceed 180 days you technically a spainish tax resident.

Collection of the matric tax has been sporadic and haphazard, even the district of Valancia seems to be the most vigilant

Dave
yes

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 02:18   #11
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,135
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

I came across this. It doesnt apply to me because I have not owned a vessel for 12 months but it might help someone else.

SPANISH LAWS FOR BOATS

Because I intended moving to Spain, as a resident, I had been in touch with Spanish Legal Authorities to find out the situation with bringing my boat into the country for UK citizens.
If you are just sailing into Spain and intend being in Spanish Waters
for less than 183 days = 6 months in any year:
then really you have no problems.
You must carry on board your registration certificate (SSR or 'Part 1' for UK boats) your passports, a copy of your insurance documentation and a VHF operators licence. These rules apply to all EU countries for a EU registered boat with EU owner/skipper.
No foreign country can dictate what qualifications or safety equipment a yacht or skipper in their waters must conform to except it should conform to the rules of the country in which the boat is registered. (The UK does not require any qualification to 'drive' a boat so you do not need to carry one.) You may choose to, because not all Spanish Customs/Guardia Civil know that is the UK law! To have a ICC or Yachtmaster is useful. Authorities from any EU country can require 'proof' that VAT has been paid on the vessel.
If you have property in Spain and a boat in a local port but are personally in Spain for less than 183 days - 6 months of the year, then you also do not have a problem. It is your 'non residence', not the fact the boat is in Spanish waters that counts. It is sensible to have the boat 'precintado' or sealed by Spanish Customs when you are 'away' in order to prove the less than 183 days of residence/use of the boat. (The onus of 'proof' is on you to prove you were not in the country - it is not on the Spanish Authorities!)
If you intend sailing into Spain and spending more than 183 days = 6 months in one year -
even if you leave and re-enter during any 12 month period, then different rules/laws apply:
If you are land based or living in your boat in Spain, for more than 180 days in any 12 month period, then the Spanish Authorities will consider you to be resident in Spain. (You will remain domicile in your country of origin (e.g. UK) but for Spanish legal and tax purposes you are considered to be a resident of Spain.
(The same rule applies to France, Netherlands, Greece, Portugal and other EU countries)
If you own a property in Spain and spend more than 183 days = 6 months in Spain in any 12 month period, then the Spanish authorities consider you to be resident in Spain
THIS IS HOW THE SPANISH LAW EXPECTS RESIDENTSTO BEHAVE WITH THEIR BOATS:-
You must pay 'Matriculation' tax of 12% of the value of the boat.
However it is possible to have this Matriculation' tax of 12% waivedif you apply for Spanish registration as follows
1.The registration must be applied within the first 30 days from becoming resident in Spain.
2. The boat should have paid the standard taxes in the EU country of origin.
3. The boat should have been owned by you for at least 12 months before of getting the Spanish tax residency.
The ownership who obtain this tax benefit cannot sell the boat before six months.
Probably need help with this - here
If it is not possible to prove that VAT has already been paid then you would need to pay VAT. (You should be able to prove that it has been paid fairly easily from the boats paperwork)
You will be liable for the annual Tarifa G-5 tax which is effectively a tax on having a boat and varies with the power of the engine and the size of the boat. Bit like the old 'light dues'. - the same tax exists in France and several other EU countries. It is payable locally. The 'average' cost for a 12 metre sail boat is probably around 600 annually. This tax appears to be applied in Valencia but not in other parts of Spain. It is sometimes charged by the marina and included in the berthing fees.
The law in Spain changed in January 2011 and it is no longer required that EU citizens resident in Spain re-flag their boats, so once you have applied for the exemption of the matriculation tax, as in many other EU countries, you will be required to pay the same boat tax as Spanish Citizens. You will be allowed to equip and sail your boat according to the laws of your country of origin.
For UK citizens there are no legal requirements on boat equipment or certificates to allow you to drive your boat, so the same applies in Spain.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 04:34   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,359
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Very interesting, Weavis. It's interesting to follow by those of us in the U.S., especially now with the EU. There each country acts very much like each state in the US acts. Every one has their own specific rules on things like residency and taxes. We have similar if you have your boat registered in one state and then keep it in another. Some states require registration in 60 days, some 90, some longer, and some not at all if it's Documented (by USCG). As the world gets smaller and people travel more it gets more and more complex. So much of the structure came about centuries ago when people traveled little. If you were starting the US or Canada over you wouldn't have states and provinces with different laws and if you were starting the EU over you probably wouldn't have separate laws for each country.

But it requires educating ourselves as you are doing to be in compliance and avoid major problems.
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 18:23   #13
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Quote:

No foreign country can dictate what qualifications or safety equipment a yacht or skipper in their waters must conform to except it should conform to the rules of the country in which the boat is registered. (The UK does not require any qualification to 'drive' a boat so you do not need to carry one.) You may choose to, because not all Spanish Customs/Guardia Civil know that is the UK law! To have a ICC or Yachtmaster is useful.
This piece is clearly wrong, countries in general apply the principle of " comity" which means they respect the laws of a foreign country .

But there is no legal requirement to respect a flag vessels laws. Croatia for example requires skippers to be certified when sailing in its waters, even on a UK flagged vessel

France will maintain its yacht safety rules apply to all yachts in its waters, even it sporadically enforced.

Ireland applies its life jacket rules to all leisure vessels sailing in its territorial waters irrespective of flag state.

Portugal can and does apply its safety rules from time to time to errant foreign leisure vessels

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-03-2014, 18:31   #14
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,135
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
This piece is clearly wrong, countries in general apply the principle of " comity" which means they respect the laws of a foreign country .

But there is no legal requirement to respect a flag vessels laws. Croatia for example requires skippers to be certified when sailing in its waters, even on a UK flagged vessel

France will maintain its yacht safety rules apply to all yachts in its waters, even it sporadically enforced.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes. Im taking ALL information in and processing it against what I know of the country and its ways. I have been in deep conference with Spanish authorities regarding several issues over the years, and work on the principle that the law is what ever they say at that precise time and by that individual in front of me.

I do everything I can to remain affable (and not arrested) and leave it for another time to argue or correct their error through more senior authority than them. If they say an I.C.C. is what I should have in Spain, then I guess regardless of what I do at home then I will ensure I have one.

At that point, Im a long way from the U.K. to be losing a fight.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2014, 07:32   #15
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK winter, Greece summer
Boat: Charter vessels!
Posts: 314
Re: V.A.T. I.C.C. residence status and tax in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Ive been looking for a catamaran recently, and wanted to sail in the Med possbly based out of Mallorca or Sant Carles. However.. a spanner was thrown in the works and this wont be looked at again until next year due to other commitments.

For those that are based in the Med, specifically Spain, what hoops do I have to go through or requirements to:
  • live aboard a British registered sub 40 foot Catamaran for about 2 years
  • Income not derived from Spain.
  • Keep the vessel British registered and UK VAT paid.
  • Sailing "licence" ?
and how much will all this cost........

You don't mention whether you'll be living aboard for long periods, or whether this is a "second home" for commuting to. A big difference to the answers . . .

It'll be worth you reading much of the material on the "Go Foreign" tab of my web site at jimbsail.info/ , and more specifically, the "time abroad" page which covers stuff like tax residence (doesn't matter where its earned! More depends how much time you're in the country)

As to where to keep the boat, there are many options along the coasts, described in the West Mediterranean pages. But to avoid the need to import your boat into Spain (with the rigmarole that implies) you may choose to keep yourself, together with the boat, in France/Corsica/Sardinia for some of the time.

Where I know them, there are links to several of the marina and port web sites which give you some guidance on costs.

JimBsail
__________________

__________________
jckb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enc, icc, Spain

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Health Insurance and Residence rheys Monohull Sailboats 1 31-07-2013 06:51
Florida or Penn. residence cla6665 Dollars & Cents 14 20-03-2012 17:58
Washington State purchase with out-of-state residence cyclepro Dollars & Cents 7 06-06-2011 09:55
Country of Residence of Cruisers ? Nathan1975 Cruising News & Events 78 03-03-2011 01:35
Sales Tax and Use Tax - What the...? jpemb7 Dollars & Cents 7 18-01-2010 22:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.