Turkish Tourist Visa Changes ?

[miyagimoon]

Below is a message sent out by The Cruising Association. The British Embassy Website confirms.


Dear Med Section member

Turkey - Visa changes

Not good news, I'm afraid.......

Contrary to what we reported in early January, it has now been confirmed by the British Embassy in Ankara that the new 90/180 day visitor visa regulations will be enforced as from today (1st Feb).

This means that British visitors can make multiple visits totalling a maximum of 90 days only in any 180 day period.

The days of the quarterly visa runs to Greece to renew the visitor visa are over. Be warned - the fines/bans for exceeding the 90 days can be severe.

It is not clear how these regulations will be applied to other nationalities. You are advised to check with your respective embassies/consulates.

Further information about this and the need, or otherwise, for Turkish health insurance for Residence permit holders can be found on the British Embassy website.

Turkey - Blue Card scheme/discharge of waste water/Mugla

The situation regarding the operation of the Blue Card Scheme is still very confused. We would greatly appreciate hearing first hand experiences from members as to how it's being implemented. Thank you

[Katiusha]

An update from Marmaris Yat Marin (not verbatim):

European cruisers got together and wrote a petition to the marina owner/manager explaining that they would lose their health benefits back home if they were to take up Turkish residence visa. They would also need to incur additional expenses as anyone on residence visa needs to pay mandatory 182 TRY/month for Turkish medical. So now most European sailors are going to leave Turkey for other Med countries (Greece or Montenegro or other). This letter finally got the attention it deserved.

Turkey's marina owners are gathering a group and going to Ankara to petition for another visa law change.

Don't know if they will manage to change the visa policy, but based on similar experiences in the past it might: in March 2011 (?) Turkey changed visa policy for Russia (largest tourism provider) to 30 days out of 180. This reduced Turkey's tourism revenues by 70%. After petitions, by July the visa was extended to 60 days out of 180, and now it's 90 out of 180.

[MacG]

Politicians in general are unable to learn from experience. Because they cannot be punished for any unwise economical/financial decision.

Dutch pensions are collectible everywhere and in case of residency medical costs will have to be arranged in the country of residence. Except for EU countries.
Croatia will be shortly a EU member so it might be interesting to look there too.
Although they are extremely bureaucratic.

[beneteau-500]

so albert and charlie karpaz marina is looking the better option then hehehehheheh see ya Saturday

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by Katiusha

An update from Marmaris Yat Marin (not verbatim):

European cruisers got together and wrote a petition to the marina owner/manager explaining that they would lose their health benefits back home if they were to take up Turkish residence visa. They would also need to incur additional expenses as anyone on residence visa needs to pay mandatory 182 TRY/month for Turkish medical. So now most European sailors are going to leave Turkey for other Med countries (Greece or Montenegro or other). This letter finally got the attention it deserved.

Turkey's marina owners are gathering a group and going to Ankara to petition for another visa law change.

Don't know if they will manage to change the visa policy, but based on similar experiences in the past it might: in March 2011 (?) Turkey changed visa policy for Russia (largest tourism provider) to 30 days out of 180. This reduced Turkey's tourism revenues by 70%. After petitions, by July the visa was extended to 60 days out of 180, and now it's 90 out of 180.

Thanks for the update.

I'm assuming that one receives something for that 182 TRY/month for Turkish medical. Maybe allows one to obtain health care services at local rates rather than at higher tourist rates?

Judy

[Katiusha]

Originally Posted by svBeBe

Thanks for the update.

I'm assuming that one receives something for that 182 TRY/month for Turkish medical. Maybe allows one to obtain health care services at local rates rather than at higher tourist rates?

Judy

Yes. As far as I know basic medical would be free and prescription meds would be much cheaper (similar to the Canadian system). You would have to go to government hospitals/clinics to get the benefit. Ozel, Universal and other hospital groups are considered private, so you would still have to pay something there.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I can't remember exactly what folk in the UK (and here) lose by being abroad (and for the UK I think the rules differ between EU, Non Eu and Commonweath countries?).

Have always found it a bit strange - would have thought that "exporting" old folks would be a net gain to the exchequer, from saving money on housing benefits / residential care and even NHS costs (most folks won't be coming back to UK for GP visits or hospital treatment for minor ailments - and others won't make it back (in time!) for anything major / expensive )......indeed, giving oldies a bonus for leaving the UK would seem to make sense .

Think there is a group of pensioners who loose the annual increases to UK pensions by living abroad, its probably outside the EU. However, they all still get the winter fuel allowance

Perhaps more importantly, was this piece of legislation introduced to catch out a couple of thousand yachties each year or a much bigger picture of lots of folk staying beyond the 90 days in Turkey and working in the black economy? if so, then yachties have jsut been caught i nthe cross fire unfortunately. Even worse such a small group is unlikely to have real clout to change laws.

I am still with DOJ though, 90 days does sound a long time even if it is inconvienent to some yachties with plans to winter in a marina. Afterall why should a country support a foreigner for free through the winter?

Pete

[s/v Jedi]

I guess the game is really over in the EU & US. People are getting agressive towards even tourists, probably because they can still afford to be a tourist. Armies are called back home, tourists deported, borders closed, guns pointed out.

I am so happy that we did see this coming 10 years ago and decided to emigrate and go live where things are going up instead of down, people smiling, welcoming and sharing happiness. Here one can just stay for ever if retired and have money, without governments getting angry about you gaining (financial) independence over them.

ciao!
Nick.

[MacG]

Frankly Nick, that is secluded to the very happy few who had the chance to get away in the clear.
My father saw it all coming in 1976 when we bought the house in France, big enough to breathe. I got it now by inheritance, but can little do with it. In the summer the area of the Dordogne is overcrowded with tourists and there are lines of cars just like in Holland, in the winter it is as cold as anywhere else. I could sell it and buy a bigger boat, but time that is left to me is too short and my present boat is factually good enough.

But you are right, the game is pretty over.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I guess the game is really over in the EU & US. People are getting agressive towards even tourists, probably because they can still afford to be a tourist. Armies are called back home, tourists deported, borders closed, guns pointed out.

I am so happy that we did see this coming 10 years ago and decided to emigrate and go live where things are going up instead of down, people smiling, welcoming and sharing happiness. Here one can just stay for ever if retired and have money, without governments getting angry about you gaining (financial) independence over them.

ciao!
Nick.

Well, not at the moment .......wait until the money stops flowing and you will soon find out there is a "them" and "us". and 3 guesses which category you will be in......

Although I don't follow the soap opera that is English Politics as much as I once did - seems they are heading towards a scenario where the locals are de facto criminalised for simply having assets abroad - whereas for non locals it's open borders.

Personally I don't have any problem with a Country tilting the rules in favour of own citizens and if that includes losing a few "Tourists" who border on the category of tax evading illegal immigrants, then so be it. It's a price worth paying.

The treating the whole world as having the same "rights" as a local just for simply turning up is something that has a major downside - when the money to do so runs out. There is always a "them" and "us".

But perhaps I am straying into forbidden territory on all that..........

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I guess the game is really over in the EU & US. People are getting agressive towards even tourists, probably because they can still afford to be a tourist. Armies are called back home, tourists deported, borders closed, guns pointed out.

ciao!
Nick.

Nick, I fear you are right and that the idea that one could sail around the world in a care free manner with minimal costs like Rosie Swale has changed permanently, for the worse.

Pete

[goboatingnow]

Unfortunately and this isn't a flame, The 90/180 things was started by the US after 9/11. Most of this stuff is just reciprocal nonsense. The EU closed down to 90/180 and now Turkey is reciprocating.

Whats needed is not to change the general tourist visa, but to agitate for a extended stay tourist , say 6 months.

I dont agree Jedi about things closing down. The US still has a long stay B1 and EU citizens can stay as long as they like in the EU. Its the rest of the unwashed that are struggling.!!!

Dave

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Nick, I fear you are right and that the idea that one could sail around the world in a care free manner with minimal costs like Rosie Swale has changed permanently, for the worse.

Pete

Indeed that seems the case. Central & South America seem to have become the safe havens for us who love freedom and happiness over power & status. How the world turns upside down so quickly is truly amazing. More so because lots of the local population here is very much into the "status thing". The difference is that it is limited to cars or cell phones etc. and they respect those who do not play.

ciao!
Nick.

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by Pete7

........
I am still with DOJ though, 90 days does sound a long time even if it is inconvienent to some yachties with plans to winter in a marina. Afterall why should a country support a foreigner for free through the winter?

Pete

During this tread you have espoused the idea of tourists costing countries if they stay too long.

Exactly how does a country support a foreigner for free through the winter? We are talking about yachties. The yachtie pays for the marina; pays for the electricity and water usage; pays for local labor and supplies; pays for restaurants, bars and groceries; pays for clothing and souvenirs; pays for entertainment; pays for medical care received (if any); pays for either rental cars or purchases a vehicle and pays taxes and insurance on it; pays for anything consumed or used in any manner.

Please explain exactly how a country supports a foreigner for free through the winter? I'm really trying to understand what you are talking about. The only thing that comes to mind is that you must mean income taxes. Yachties do not generate any income within the countries visited so would not be subject to foreign income taxes....unless they open local banking accounts and earn interest which would be taxable. We yachties bring an influx of income to the countries visited; we do not burden those countries; the countries do not support us.

Please explain. In simple terms for my simple mind.

Judy

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by svBeBe

During this tread you have espoused the idea of tourists costing countries if they stay too long.

Exactly how does a country support a foreigner for free through the winter? We are talking about yachties. The yachtie pays for the marina; pays for the electricity and water usage; pays for local labor and supplies; pays for restaurants, bars and groceries; pays for clothing and souvenirs; pays for entertainment; pays for medical care received (if any); pays for either rental cars or purchases a vehicle and pays taxes and insurance on it; pays for anything consumed or used in any manner.

Please explain exactly how a country supports a foreigner for free through the winter? I'm really trying to understand what you are talking about. The only thing that comes to mind is that you must mean income taxes. Yachties do not generate any income within the countries visited so would not be subject to foreign income taxes....unless they open local banking accounts and earn interest which would be taxable. We yachties bring an influx of income to the countries visited; we do not burden those countries; the countries do not support us.

Please explain. In simple terms for my simple mind.

Judy

The money received from the taxes you describe is simply not enough to run a country. If it was you would be in a country that has no income (or other taxes) - they do exist, just tend to be rather dull or have "challenges" .

The fact that you don't use the schools or a squillion other services personally is irrelevant - it's all part of the cost of running a country and everyone living in that country gets to share that burden.....and having all that existing (and paid for) is part of the reason for folk living there. Otherwise folks would be hanging out in places like Somalia.

You may argue that the cash value of the taxes you personally pay is higher than the total tax paid by the average citizen (Consumption taxes and income taxes etc combined).....and you may be right, but that doesn't actually matter - people who live in a country get to pay their share as decided by the people who live in a country - usually according to their ability and not what they would like to.

In any event you will find that plenty of locals do have the same (or more) spending power than you and also get to pay income taxes......why should someone living in the same country be any different simply by having a different passport? and / or being subject to taxes elsewhere.

For most countries (Turkey, UK, USA or Bongo Bongo land) you do become tax resident sooner or later from simply living in the country for long enough - it's simply a question of when.....and there be no direct correlation to length of VISA (although that a useful tool to track folks / prevent folks from having a free ride) and not whether someone is working or the fact that the individual concerned considers paying tax as inconveniant. ("Tax is for the little people"?).

Some countries do however issue VISAs that address those issues - you will know when you have one, because you will have applied for one. If you move to a country that doesn't have those then that is your choice.

I appreciate that 90 days may well be PITA for some (others would argue that very generous), but have to bear in mind that the long stay Liveaboard / Liveonshore market is small beer for most countries (may be different in a small island economy) and that 90% (plus) of Tourists will be under a month, if not only a couple of weeks - and certainly not worth enough to break the principle of "live in the country and pay your share"......otherwise the easy tax dodge when entering a country would be to simply buy a boat.

Probably find that as Countries develop economically (and some sectors become less important) and enforcement capability moves from man on a bicycle to something more sophisticated that "they" become more like "us" when collecting taxes.

No such thing as a free lunch - someone has to pay.....IMO it might as well be those doing the eating, rather than those doing the serving.

All the above meant to be helpful - not argumentative .