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Old 22-05-2011, 05:09   #1
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Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

Does anyone have any recent experience og this new scheme asnd how it works. What exactly are the new rules in the Gicek area for grey and black water disposal? Are they being enfirced by the authorities? What are the penalties for not following these difficult to find rules? Any information really appreciated as we would like to continue cruising in this beautiful part of the world but are being put off by rumours of the new blue card scheme and the difficulty in finding out what the rules are. We have asked in marinas but they can't help. There are some scare stories of the blue card being used to track the boat and to measure the amount of grey and black water discharged at official discharge points. We sail a fairly small yacht and although we have a holding tank for black water - which we ALWAYS discharge well off shore, we have no tank for grey water and it would be difficult (and expensive) and maybe impossible to adapt the boat to colelct grey water. Any CURRENT information graetly appreciated - May 2011. Many thanks.
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Old 22-05-2011, 11:45   #2
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

The last I knew came from an article by Hasan Kacmaz (who lives sailing and resides in the area and runs the East Med Rally and a few marinas) was that the 2010 Environmental Regulations were shelved, but then re-imposed in the Gocek Bay. Hasan has reported to the Cruising Association that its impossible to see how these regulations could work even there, as there are not the facilities for compliance.

He says the regulations for the rest of the Mugla region are still in abeyance, and Hasan believes the proposals for 'grey water' tanks in medium sized yachts will eventually be abandoned. FWIW Hasan does not even have a black water tank on his own yacht, let alone grey ones.

IMHO and knowing how rumours can build, unless there you have facts to back up the scare stories you hear, then it might be best to treat them for what they are.......

Cheers
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Old 22-05-2011, 17:16   #3
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

So called "blue card" scheme is currently NOT working and I see it quite unlikely to work in the foreseable future, the way it was proposed..

We run a charter company in Marmaris and had recently a lot of boats checked in and out in Mramris, Gek, Bodrum, etc. and haven't even seen yet any of these blue cards..

Unfortunately in Turkey the regulations are very abstract and confusing as there are many authorities that are involved; maritime undersecratary, ministry of tourism, ministry of of environment, local municipalities to name a few..

In a long run, it may be imposed for a very restricted areas (like a bay of Gek) and a much "lighter" version of it. The infrastructure is not ready and this willl take years. Moreover, sooner or later someone will remember that this scheme might just kill the boat industry (charter, cruising, boat servicing, etc) in Turkey..

Cheers

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Old 23-05-2011, 04:45   #4
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the information. However, I do know that the blue card IS being issued by some marinas and so it must be in use, at least to some extent. I asked at the Netzel marina in Marmaris and ECE marina in Fethiye (in April this year) and they were both keen to issue me with a card - for free!! Neither of them could explain how the card would work in practise so I politely declined. There seems nothing for it but to keep an eye on how this develops. Maybe we could keep this thread open and encourage anyone with new information to post it here. This would be a great help to all of us I believe.
Thanks again.
John
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Old 23-05-2011, 05:35   #5
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

Hi John,

I've checked it again, there is nothing to worry for the time being. Cosat guard doesn't have any instruction/power to check the boats, neither the port authorities are checking it while issuing a transit log and or making the entry procedures.
There is not even yet any regulation announced officially, but a draft of regulation is being circulated to get the opinion of related parts. (boating industry, chamber of maritime commerce, port authorities, cost guard, etc)

I'll keep you posted, should there be any change, but as I said, at least for this year, it looks very unlikely..

The cards that you mentioned are currently unvalid and it is said that the new cards will be distributed once the system will be operative.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:37   #6
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

It seems it is now effective:

Black/Gray Water Tanks

Mugla province (encompasses the rightly popular SW cruising areas from north of Bodrum to west of Fethiye) has passed regulations requiring both black and gray water tanks. Yachts are legally required to carry "Blue Cards" that are scanned with each pump-out. Unfortunately, how that data is then used is the subject of unsubstantiated (so far) rumor and innuendo. The reality is that few boats under 45' are equipped with or will find it easy to install practical gray water tanks. The gray water regulation is not limited to larger boats or boats with over a given number of crew/passengers.


Turkey as a destination for 2012 - Regulations and costs — Noonsite

But I have heard that the Grey water was not necessary. Does somebody knows more.

What about the tank capacity versus required mandatory time for emptying it?

and about this?:

I've just received an email from my marina in Didim. ...
Dear Guests,
Within the context of preventing environmental pollution and seas,Environmental laws numbered 2878 and regulations issued based on this law, usage and discharge of detergents is environmental crime.

There is no legal provision that marine detergents used to clean boats is legal. Usage of all kind of detergents, including marine detergents is prohibited. Otherwise criminal proceedings are applied.

Kindly for your information,


http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344051
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:51   #7
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

We are based in the Gocek area, where blue cards are issued, and required at pump out places, of which there are a few. Other parts of Turkey seem not to have issued them, and even in the Gocek area there seems little to effort made to police anything. When you pump, the time and amount is recorded against your boat name on an apparently sophisticated card reading computer link. You would assume there is the possibility of checking if you have pumped the assumed amounts, but they dont!
Grey water is also subject to the rules but they seem to recognise that small boats cant comply!
A sort of mixture of theory and reality!
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Old 08-01-2013, 11:12   #8
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

So as far as gray water goes I would have to make a guess that 99.9% of boats are illegal.

And I guess if you what to wash anything on the boat you need to haul out. If you need to wash your disehs you have to take them ashore.

Am I not reading correctly?
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:05   #9
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

Well, there are rules on washing down, and on sanding down varnish for example, and I heard of a yard fined in Marmaris for allowing someone to sand their rails, but it seems that like the grey and black water rules they are intermittently policed. As with everything, moderation is key, as is the "dont get caught rule". As to dishes, there are ecologically sound detergents, and you dont see people taking their stuff ashore, so it is safe to assume most are breaking that rule! It is a lovely cruising ground and most are careful not to abuse the system but I would doubt that many are obeying all of the regulations!
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:29   #10
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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Originally Posted by Tim Godber View Post
Well, there are rules on washing down, and on sanding down varnish for example, and I heard of a yard fined in Marmaris for allowing someone to sand their rails, but it seems that like the grey and black water rules they are intermittently policed. As with everything, moderation is key, as is the "dont get caught rule". As to dishes, there are ecologically sound detergents, and you dont see people taking their stuff ashore, so it is safe to assume most are breaking that rule! It is a lovely cruising ground and most are careful not to abuse the system but I would doubt that many are obeying all of the regulations!
That is quite crazy. What you say means they can fine me anytime they want : no way not to trough away the water from cleaning the dishes or impossible to not use detergent since that by what I have heard, even the eco ones are forbidden.

I don' like that "don't get caught rule" and after Crete and maybe Rhodes I will point out to the Cyclades
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Old 08-01-2013, 13:23   #11
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Dear Guests,
Within the context of preventing environmental pollution and seas,Environmental laws numbered 2878 and regulations issued based on this law, usage and discharge of detergents is environmental crime.

There is no legal provision that marine detergents used to clean boats is legal. Usage of all kind of detergents, including marine detergents is prohibited. Otherwise criminal proceedings are applied.
Heh, had exactly the same thing in Yat Marin in 2010. The marina staff would frown at any soapy discharge (if there was a lot of it) because they got out of favour with some local government. There were signs all over the place about boat soap being prohibited [with apologies]. Towards the end of the year those signs quietly disappeared and the boat soap was legal again.
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Old 08-01-2013, 13:39   #12
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

The blue card regulation in Turkey is a bit of a muddle.
There are plenty of rumours going around,but that's what they are.....rumours
We have kept the boat in Turkey for 4 years now and last year were issued with a blue card by our boatyard.
It is a" smart card "with the boat details stored on it and the theory is that when you pump out the holding tank,this isrecorded on the card and so on to the computer system.
In practice however,there arefew places which can pump out yacht tanks as the hoses are sizedto fit Gulets and are too big for yachts.
In Bodrum, for example,I presented my card to the harbourmasters office where it was read and "credited" with the volume I wishedto pump out. He then told me
To go well out to sea and do thebusiness.

The biggest polluters in Turkey are and have always been the Gulets,which
generally have around 10 or more passengers and 3or4 crew.

It isgenerally felt that the regulations were brought in to tackle this issue,but
Had to be extended to all types of vessels.
However....always empty the tank well offshore and under no circumstances never in Marmaris bay or Gocek/fetiye area. Use common sense!
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Old 22-01-2013, 03:10   #13
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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Originally Posted by fishtail View Post
The blue card regulation in Turkey is a bit of a muddle.
There are plenty of rumours going around,but that's what they are.....rumours
We have kept the boat in Turkey for 4 years now and last year were issued with a blue card by our boatyard.
It is a" smart card "with the boat details stored on it and the theory is that when you pump out the holding tank,this isrecorded on the card and so on to the computer system.
In practice however,there arefew places which can pump out yacht tanks as the hoses are sizedto fit Gulets and are too big for yachts.
In Bodrum, for example,I presented my card to the harbourmasters office where it was read and "credited" with the volume I wishedto pump out. He then told me
To go well out to sea and do thebusiness.

The biggest polluters in Turkey are and have always been the Gulets,which
generally have around 10 or more passengers and 3or4 crew.

It is generally felt that the regulations were brought in to tackle this issue,but
Had to be extended to all types of vessels.
However....always empty the tank well offshore and under no circumstances never in Marmaris bay or Gocek/fetiye area. Use common sense!
Very true Fishtail,

Unfortunately many laws and regulations in Turkey are made, and passed, on a 'catch all' basis. Having lived here for many years we have grown used to laws which come and go as the powers realise that they are un-enforceable

The blue card scheme is slowly coming into force and will, in time, impact on the lowly sailor. The laws were origionally aimed at the gullet, and larger, trip boats. Unfortunately, in Turkey, anything that floats is legally a "ship" and comes under the same statute; hence the concern by the yachting community.

The regulation has not been rescinded but there is an awareness that it is impractical to apply to all craft, regardless of size. In time I am sure that it will be modified either by legislation or concensus and a practical approach will be adopted.

In the meantime common sense should be applied; pumping heads in a marina could be considered 'unwise'!
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Old 22-01-2013, 05:53   #14
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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Originally Posted by Tim Godber View Post
Well, there are rules on washing down, and on sanding down varnish for example, and I heard of a yard fined in Marmaris for allowing someone to sand their rails, but it seems that like the grey and black water rules they are intermittently policed. As with everything, moderation is key, as is the "dont get caught rule". As to dishes, there are ecologically sound detergents, and you dont see people taking their stuff ashore, so it is safe to assume most are breaking that rule! It is a lovely cruising ground and most are careful not to abuse the system but I would doubt that many are obeying all of the regulations!
Here goes another RUMOUR !!

Peter
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Old 22-01-2013, 10:19   #15
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

not so rivonia.

The act has been passed and is on the 'books'.

The problem is that, as it stands, it is unworkable. Only time will tell exactly how it will be "interpreted" by the authorities that we come into contact with. Or, maybe, it will be withdrawn until such time as the politicians, and various agencies involved, can arrive at a suitable wording which will allow the act to come back into force; in a workable format.

Yes rumours will abound but only because people will have different stories to tell as they encounter the authorities making their own "versions" of the act in an effort to try to make it work.

I was informed, by our marina staff, that they would be issuing 'Blue Cards' soon so that we could all comply with the part of the act that says that we should, at least, possess one!

As they say; "it all adds to the fun" !
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