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Old 11-02-2013, 05:34   #31
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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Originally Posted by jckb View Post
Hmm. The snag here is that Turkish legislation doesn't permit "pollution" (defined as discharge of either black water, grey water or bilge pumping!) within territorial waters. This is usually 12nm, but 6nm or less along the Dodecanese coasts.

And visitor's yacht permission expires if the yacht leaves territorial waters.

So, the logic of the blue card is that if the yacht hasn't booked out of Turkey, it must have stayed within territorial waters. And if it hasn't been pumped out, it must have discharged illegally . . .

That's why it's not a legal option.

...
Yes that's right. The legislation has also some tables that say how much is the expected black and grey water for person a day (that are ridiculous high because they consider grey water) and if you grossly overpass the number of days without a stamp discharge on the blue card (or if you don't have one) regarding the capacity of your BW tank/number of persons aboard they can rightly assume that you have discharged the tank on the water. One way or another you are violating the law and can be finned. The fines on pollution can be incredibly high.

Regarding those BW tank/number of persons aboard and the need to pump, in my boat it would be every day and my boat as not a small BW tank and we are only two.

The situation as I see it is that one way or another you are breaking the law and they can rightly fine you. The law is not been enforced but that does not mean that at any moment a corrupt or extra zealous police or authority is not in position to legally fine you heavily.

I don't like it and while it is like that I will pass.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:48   #32
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

[QUOTE=Buena Vista;1153533]
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Originally Posted by jckb View Post
Hmm. The snag here is that Turkish legislation doesn't permit "pollution" (defined as discharge of either black water, grey water or bilge pumping!) within territorial waters. This is usually 12nm, but 6nm or less along the Dodecanese coasts.


Can you reference an official document with this information? With so much rumour and innuendo it would be nice to have at least one verifiable fact.
I have asked on the Turkish tourism stand on the Dusseldorf boat show and even if they obviously wanted to say me that everything was alright they confirmed that information. What was said to me is that it is my obligation to demand a blue card and if a reasonable number of pumping is made for week there would not be a problem, no matter the ridiculous high number that the tables require.

In fact this is a very clever move in what regards money and the need to use marinas: On Croatia you pay already for everything, including anchoring on many places here they would get rid of the ones that would not pay for marinas at least two times a week.

They resolve two problems with a stroke: They clean the over populated waters of undesired low budget cruisers and they finance new marinas and tourism.

Clever move I would say and one that in time it will work. In my perspective they are just not interested in doing that in a sudden way but they will go towards it, give them time to have more pump stations and more marinas.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:55   #33
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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Pollux,
Check out what Yeloya says above, he runs a charter yacht company and has been a good source of information in the past, i.e. he lives there and works in the industry.

We spent 4 months in and around the Marmaris/Bodrum/Gocek area last year and will be going back again this year. We use the marina facilities and as we regularly cruise out of the marina, we pump out outside the 3nm limit before returning. I am not sure where you got the information that pumping out at sea "is not an option in Turkey" but that has never been raised with us. In fact the Blue Card was not even raised when we cleared into Turkey (Bodrum) or took up our annual berth at Netsel in Marmaris. We only got one when we asked for it.

If you restrict yourself to the Dodecanese you will miss some of the best cruising grounds and nicest people in the Mediterranean.
I really appreciate your information. Maybe I am just over cautious but I don't like situations were you can be in trouble, no matter what. Yes I would like to sail on Turkey but Greece has plain of options and so many Islands, some very close to Turkish waters that I will pass, till they clarify the situation. I believe it will not going to happen. That is the oriental way of doing things...less clear than here but effective in time.
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Old 11-02-2013, 06:03   #34
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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..
I keep my boat in the Gocek bay area where it seems the regulations are more in focus. You will be asked at some marinas for your blue card, others wont bother. There are a number of pump out facilities including a pump out boat touring the anchorages. I have been boarded and politely asked some questions, others have not. Charter operators have told me that their boats have to have a pump out after a week of use, or they are prohibited from reusing that boat, others above will tell you this is not the case. The regulations include grey water, but the regulators are said to realise it is impossible for most boats so ignore it, again none of that will ever be formally confirmed.
Long term Turkish cruisers I know say that all this is normal, rules are put in place but ignored. Thats fine unless you are the one that gets hauled up by an official and fined because the fines are substantial. ...
Thanks. That is just about what I have been told in Dusseldorf by the Turkish tourism operators. It looks to me as the beginning of the enforcement of the law. They cannot do it suddenly. They have not enough marinas or pump out facilities they have to create them but that is not a problem since we all are going to pay them
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:08   #35
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

Hi Polux,

The initiative was started with the aim of keeping our bays clean but the way it was imposed was inappropriate and it went a bit too far..

In Turkey, we first start the things and reason later if it is feasable/doable or not. If not, we change it back.
We will let you know when the things will be changed the way you like, then you can come back.
In the meantime, enjoy Dodacanes, they are beatiful.. Moreover, Greece is freedom; you can virtually do whatever you like, you don'ty have to worry for anything.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:23   #36
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Smile Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Hi Polux,

The initiative was started with the aim of keeping our bays clean but the way it was imposed was inappropriate and it went a bit too far..

In Turkey, we first start the things and reason later if it is feasable/doable or not. If not, we change it back.
We will let you know when the things will be changed the way you like, then you can come back.
In the meantime, enjoy Dodacanes, they are beatiful.. Moreover, Greece is freedom; you can virtually do whatever you like, you don'ty have to worry for anything.

Cheers

Yeloya
That was very well put and we shall watch with interest.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:58   #37
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Re: Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Hi Polux,

The initiative was started with the aim of keeping our bays clean but the way it was imposed was inappropriate and it went a bit too far..

In Turkey, we first start the things and reason later if it is feasable/doable or not. If not, we change it back.
We will let you know when the things will be changed the way you like, then you can come back.
In the meantime, enjoy Dodacanes, they are beatiful.. Moreover, Greece is freedom; you can virtually do whatever you like, you don'ty have to worry for anything.

Cheers

Yeloya
Thanks very much. I certainly will appreciate that and I am sure I will not be the only one.

I am very careful with pollution and always use my black water tank on anchorage and empty it out offshore. Many charter boats don't do this. I even know of new charter boats that have the tanks blocked for preventing bad use and damage (Croatia) That's why a nonsense legislation pisses me off. I will be the first interested in supporting a sensible legislation that keeps anchorages clean and prevent pollution.

I would really enjoy cruising in Turkey. My wife visited the country last year and enjoyed it very much and most of all the people. We do both like Turkish food, a lot, more than the Greek one. It is a favorite one.

Regards

Manuel
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