Turkey - New Black and Grey Water Regulations and Blue Card Scheme

[rivonia]

Originally Posted by sahil

not so rivonia.

The act has been passed and is on the 'books'.

The problem is that, as it stands, it is unworkable. Only time will tell exactly how it will be "interpreted" by the authorities that we come into contact with. Or, maybe, it will be withdrawn until such time as the politicians, and various agencies involved, can arrive at a suitable wording which will allow the act to come back into force; in a workable format.

Yes rumours will abound but only because people will have different stories to tell as they encounter the authorities making their own "versions" of the act in an effort to try to make it work.

I was informed, by our marina staff, that they would be issuing 'Blue Cards' soon so that we could all comply with the part of the act that says that we should, at least, possess one!

As they say; "it all adds to the fun" !

Hi,
The words "I HEARD a YARD FINED in MARMARIS" usually scaremongering rumours-hence my reposte.

Why not say Yacht XYZ or the manager Mr So and SO in ZYW marina WAS fined??

Peter

[Jacques2]

Each year, at the same period, the same rumor...

[sahil]

Hi Peter,

You are quite right and I apologise if I took your reposte wrongly.

Jacques is also right and I am sure the rumours will get worse the nearer to the start of the season we get. Sadly the Turkish thinking, in the legislature, tends to lead to well intentioned but misdirected laws.

Maybe they think that a little confusion keeps every one on their toes!

Hugh.

[Tim Godber]

Rivonia, call it scaremongering if you will, but the original post asked if anyone had recent experience of this situation, and the response from me was exactly what I had experienced and heard whilst cruising in the area. Remember please that this forum is to share experience and for the most part it brings useful information to the fore. The yard was Yatmarin, they warned a friend that they had been fined and he was not to do his sanding whilst in the water, I hope the detail helps you!

[Polux]

I have been on Dusseldorf boat show and went to the Turkish big stand to see if I could make something out of this mess.

I have a recent boat with a reasonably big black water tank but no way of taking the **** out from the tank except in a messy way, I mean I have an opening under the bunk of the front cabin but no deck direct opening for it and anyway the limits they talk about regarding the day capacity/person required are ridiculous. If the law was enforced I had to go every day to a marina to take the **** out, and I mean I know a lot of boats with smaller tanks.

I talked to them and that was a crazy conversation. They don't know more than you or I. I don't like messy stuff so I guess this year I will sail on the Dodecanese islands that are just some miles of the Turkish coast but not on Turkey

I guess that a global ban on Turkish waters by the sailing cruising community would quickly settle this nonsense.

[gegroves]

Polux, a global band on Turkish waters is a bit over-reaching. I emptied our tanks at the Yat Marina pump-out last year before coming home for the winter. It was not without issues, but all-in-all we are empty and did not have to go off-shore to do the pump out. If you do not have a pump-out port on deck, then you must go off-shore. No one wants to have "floaters" at the dock or anchorage.

Here is the US, you cannot pump your black water into the coastal waters, you also must go off-shore. Admittedly, there are more and easier pump out facilities to handle the load, so to speak.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by gegroves

Polux, a global band on Turkish waters is a bit over-reaching. I emptied our tanks at the Yat Marina pump-out last year before coming home for the winter. It was not without issues, but all-in-all we are empty and did not have to go off-shore to do the pump out. If you do not have a pump-out port on deck, then you must go off-shore. No one wants to have "floaters" at the dock or anchorage.

Here is the US, you cannot pump your black water into the coastal waters, you also must go off-shore. Admittedly, there are more and easier pump out facilities to handle the load, so to speak.

Of course, I do always that, I mean discharge the black water tank offshore but that is not an option in Turkey. The thing works like this according with Turkish law: You have to buy a card that will receive the information regarding pumping out the blank water tank. It is estimated by law the needs for each person /day in what regards black water and grey water.

The authorities will verify, according with the tankage of your black water (and grey water) deposit and the number of persons, if the pump outs needed were made. As I said I have a boat with a 12.5m with a black water tank bigger than average and in my case, with two persons aboard I would have to go everyday to a marina to pump the black and grey water out to respect the law.

As I am a citizen that obeys the law and does not want to be at the mercy of any authority that can enforce a stupid law (the fines are huge) I will not sail in Turkey while this nonsense continues.

Perhaps you like grey areas were you can be finned but can have luck and get away with it. I don't and continue to think that a ban on the Turkish waters would be a very effective measure to solve rapidly this nonsense. after all we have the Greek Dodecanese Islands right in front of the Turkish waters and I have been told they are quite nice.

[gegroves]

Polux: I am sorry if I offended. I do respect the laws and have the Blue Card and pump out. Enjoy the Dodeconese. They are beautiful.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by gegroves

Polux: I am sorry if I offended. I do respect the laws and have the Blue Card and pump out. Enjoy the Dodeconese. They are beautiful.

Nice of you. No offense taken.

[Buena Vista]

Originally Posted by yeloya

So called "blue card" scheme is currently NOT working and I see it quite unlikely to work in the foreseable future, the way it was proposed..

We run a charter company in Marmaris and had recently a lot of boats checked in and out in Mramris, Göçek, Bodrum, etc. and haven't even seen yet any of these blue cards..

Unfortunately in Turkey the regulations are very abstract and confusing as there are many authorities that are involved; maritime undersecratary, ministry of tourism, ministry of of environment, local municipalities to name a few..

In a long run, it may be imposed for a very restricted areas (like a bay of Göçek) and a much "lighter" version of it. The infrastructure is not ready and this willl take years. Moreover, sooner or later someone will remember that this scheme might just kill the boat industry (charter, cruising, boat servicing, etc) in Turkey..

Cheers

Yeloya

Pollux,
Check out what Yeloya says above, he runs a charter yacht company and has been a good source of information in the past, i.e. he lives there and works in the industry.

We spent 4 months in and around the Marmaris/Bodrum/Gocek area last year and will be going back again this year. We use the marina facilities and as we regularly cruise out of the marina, we pump out outside the 3nm limit before returning. I am not sure where you got the information that pumping out at sea "is not an option in Turkey" but that has never been raised with us. In fact the Blue Card was not even raised when we cleared into Turkey (Bodrum) or took up our annual berth at Netsel in Marmaris. We only got one when we asked for it.

If you restrict yourself to the Dodecanese you will miss some of the best cruising grounds and nicest people in the Mediterranean.

[Jacques2]

I have been sailing in turkey these 6 last years for 2 months each year and never had a blue card. Never had any problem...

[jckb]

Originally Posted by Buena Vista

We use the marina facilities and as we regularly cruise out of the marina, we pump out outside the 3nm limit before returning. I am not sure where you got the information that pumping out at sea "is not an option in Turkey" but that has never been raised with us.

Hmm. The snag here is that Turkish legislation doesn't permit "pollution" (defined as discharge of either black water, grey water or bilge pumping!) within territorial waters. This is usually 12nm, but 6nm or less along the Dodecanese coasts.

And visitor's yacht permission expires if the yacht leaves territorial waters.

So, the logic of the blue card is that if the yacht hasn't booked out of Turkey, it must have stayed within territorial waters. And if it hasn't been pumped out, it must have discharged illegally . . .

That's why it's not a legal option.

Quite close to Catch 22 really.

[Buena Vista]

[QUOTE=jckb;1153064]Hmm. The snag here is that Turkish legislation doesn't permit "pollution" (defined as discharge of either black water, grey water or bilge pumping!) within territorial waters. This is usually 12nm, but 6nm or less along the Dodecanese coasts.
QUOTE]

Can you reference an official document with this information? With so much rumour and innuendo it would be nice to have at least one verifiable fact.

[Nicholson58]

I followed links from NOONSITE. It sounds like, as noted above, that enfocement and infrastructure was never considered when the law was written. I didn't see any concession noted for composting heads.

We currently cruise the Great Lakes US and Canada. This is a strict zero discharge zone but gray water is not part of the rules. We naturally use eco friendly soap, etc. I can't imagine the impact of having to collect the gray water on cruising boats. We are 58 feet and I have no idea where I would place another tank.

I spent a little time on Google Earth looking at photos. I can empathize with the writers and residents as I see the extremely heavy usage of the waters of Skopea Limani. What is impressive is the large number of big charters hauling hordes of people to the islands en mass. I suspect that these and larger vessels are the target of the rules. Lets hope they find a way to accomodate we lowly one-family boats.

[Tim Godber]

Nicholson 58, if you follow this thread back then most of your questions will be answered, but you will be very confused because you will find that you definitely do, and definitely don't have to do all sorts of things!
I keep my boat in the Gocek bay area where it seems the regulations are more in focus. You will be asked at some marinas for your blue card, others wont bother. There are a number of pump out facilities including a pump out boat touring the anchorages. I have been boarded and politely asked some questions, others have not. Charter operators have told me that their boats have to have a pump out after a week of use, or they are prohibited from reusing that boat, others above will tell you this is not the case. The regulations include grey water, but the regulators are said to realise it is impossible for most boats so ignore it, again none of that will ever be formally confirmed.
Long term Turkish cruisers I know say that all this is normal, rules are put in place but ignored. Thats fine unless you are the one that gets hauled up by an official and fined because the fines are substantial. For myself, I ensure that I pump out as regularly as I can, and log at sea pump outs outside the regulated area, and hope for the best, grey water goes straight to sea, but with a degree of sensitivity!
Confused, yes but thats Turkey, its a lovely cruising ground so don't let this stop you!