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Old 01-02-2011, 17:25   #31
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Noone is against preserving the environment that we cruisers enjoy the most...The reason why we reacted against the measures:
-most of cities in this area (unfortunately) don't have a proper waste water collection and treatment system. Before fully controlling the black water (forget the grey water..) bashing on boaters is senseless..
-the regulation was foreseing that the boat should keep their black water for a week or so and then pump it to treatment station. Everyone knows that the more you keep the black water in yr tanks, the more difficult will be to treat it. (BOD increases)
-the biggest risk are the gulets carrying 100-150 people on daily tours that generates black water equal to 15-20 sailing boats. The regulation treated every boat of every size the same way. (by the way in Turkish legislation anything floating and exceeeding 5 meters up to 300m super tanker is considered as a "ship" and this regulation is no exception)

For those who has never been to, just google the bay of Göcek.. It is a extremely sensible area and measures should be taken. But the scheme they are (or were) planning (buying blue chip card, discharge yr black and grey water every two days or so to unexisting collection centers, serious fines if you don't do so, etc) is simply imposible to be implemented.
In short, a very good incentive prepared by people who has never seen or been on a cruising boat and with wrong prioritisations. The authorities have now seen the realities and hopefully it will be implemented in couple of years time on a more realistic basis.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 01-02-2011, 17:25   #32
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Good to hear from someone who has a first hand stand point on this subject, thanks Yeloya.

Dave, I can see the point you're trying to make and it's a sound one. However, you're thinking 'on paper' and not in the real world. The main place this would be enforced is in a marina. Tel me how exactly, they would have any idea of what you were pumping out at anchor or sailing along the coast?

There is no way an ecconomy like Turkey's is going to plumb waste water collection to every berth, that is a rediculous thing to suggest. If anything, they will simply make it the boat owners problem.

Also, again you say
Quote:
in a decent sailboat or mobo
What about the Vast Majority of cruisers who don't have a decent sized one??

It seems to me that you are just finding ways to justify your original statement.

Simple fact is that it wouldn't be easy or practical for the majority of boats out there, end of.
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Old 01-02-2011, 17:55   #33
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Simonmd, I can see this topic is becoming somewhat circular. I never commented that the Turkish proposal was sane or sensible. I know the bay of Gocek and the general Skopea Limani area quite well, having been there a few times.( and I fully agree with yeloya that its aimed at gullets)

Equally I agree that trying to contain all waste water for a week or more is impractical, nor did I suggest it.

I have fitted black water tanks to two boats a task thats much harder then grey water. grey water sources are generally able to gravity flow to a tank and piping can be non-sanitary grade flexible, 1/2 inch stuff, easy to route. Vetus make all the gear right out of the catalogue, etc. As I said not easy but doable.

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There is no way an ecconomy like Turkey's is going to plumb waste water collection to every berth, that is a rediculous thing to suggest. If anything, they will simply make it the boat owners problem.
Sorry , I wasnt being specific to Turkey, I mentioned in several posts that this issue of waste water discharge is being considered in several areas along the med. ( the alternative suggestions are to ban boats alltogether from sensitive areas).

Ultimately I beleive ( in the future) marinas will have to provide waste water plumbing. in practice installating this in a new marina, would not be especially difficult or overly expensive.

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Simple fact is that it wouldn't be easy or practical for the majority of boats out there, end of.
It may not be easy, it is entirely practical to contain waste water for a few days, but not much longer, thats all Im saying. I was actually talking to a beneteau rep at the cannes boat show, amongst other things mentioned that beneteau have already fixed areas for the installation of grey tank(s) when and if legislation comes about.

Seriously is your objections based on technical issues or you just dont like the whole idea of containing your waste ( as a concept).

I think this thread is coming to and end anyway

Dave
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:34   #34
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

It may not be easy, it is entirely practical to contain waste water for a few days, but not much longer, thats all Im saying. I was actually talking to a beneteau rep at the cannes boat show, amongst
Can you tell us what kind of sailboat you have and detail your installation of grey water tanks. It will be helpful to us to see how you designed the plumbing. Thanks
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:25   #35
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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Dave, DH and I have the same problems in our sailing areas too. The problem is the infrastructure to pump out just isn't there and I can't see it happening any time soon either. I wouldn't know were to go on the south coast of England to even pump out a black water tank, never mind grey.

I see the real problem not being yachts but land based treatment plants. We have one locally (DH, top of Thorney Channel, Chichester) renowned for dumping raw sewage into the sea if it rains hard for a day.

We are considering a holding tank, not cheap or easy on a smaller older yacht, but probably only be used if we are in an area we consider special, eg an area used for swimming. Grey? the amount we produce a year ain't going to alter the price of fish.

Pete
In fairness, where we sail is strongly tidal, so whatever goes overboard is swept away in a twinkle, and bays and estuaries are constantly scrubbed by the tide coming in and out. Plus you can't exactly call our water crystal-clear, can you Pete? So in the UK people are quite relaxed about the discharge of even black water, never mind gray.

The Med, which has practically no tides, is a different problem.

Still, I think that sensible gray water from yachts -- gray water without anything nasty in it -- does microscopically little harm to the ocean, even where there are no tides. We are always careful to keep only non-foaming, non-phosphate, biodegradable soaps and detergents on board.

And as Pete said, municipalities all over the world dump cubic miles of raw sewage into the ocean. What we put into the water is of very little significance in the grand scheme of things. I will install gray water tanks if I am required to, but not until then.
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Old 02-02-2011, 19:24   #36
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Late to this party, but storing grey water would be complicated on our cat. It might mean a separate tank for each of 3 sinks and two showers, partly location, and partly size/space available. That means vents, pump outs and drains for each as well.

I feel good about capturing the black water even though I know it is insignificant compared to what is occasionally released by municipalities. But grey water is really pushing it. I would object less to being told what detergent to use.

Uh, what do I do about the stern swim shower?
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:51   #37
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Lots talk about whether one can add grey water tanks to your boat..............but little answer to the question of whether it is required in Turkey etc.
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:35   #38
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And as Pete said, municipalities all over the world dump cubic miles of raw sewage into the ocean. What we put into the water is of very little significance in the grand scheme of things. I will install gray water tanks if I am required to, but not until then.
I think thats the attitude of almost all cruisers including me too.

Quote:
Lots talk about whether one can add grey water tanks to your boat..............but little answer to the question of whether it is required in Turkey etc.
The requirement is there in the Bay of Gocek, but the enforcement is primarily being aimed at presistent and significant offenders. Its a common feature of Med laws, draconian, but not enforced

Dave
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Old 03-02-2011, 14:34   #39
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Don Lucas : "Lots talk about whether one can add grey water tanks to your boat..............but little answer to the question of whether it is required in Turkey etc."

My boat is in Turkey and I have been sailing there for 5 years…
IMO "Yeloya" has answered very well to the question of this thread as Turkey is concerned and the Gocek/Bodrum aerea in particular….
My house is in Corsica and I can certify that nothing is on the road as grey water are concerned. And the fact is there are no pumping systems in the marinas for black water (sometimes it looks like, but doesn't work). Some areas (around Bonifacio and Scandola) have specific regulations as anchoring is concerned... That'all....
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Old 03-02-2011, 16:21   #40
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SAiled in Calvi, Galitacio, abd Bonificio this year, great places, mind you the disco bar in the harour in Bonficio, made me wish I carried a gun....


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